Originally posted by wolfgang59Well, thats a interesting point of view. So bombing factories producing military equipment or railyards used to transport enemy troops aren't valid military reasons for bombing the city such facilities are located in. Well, thats certainly a 'different ' take on the subject. (talking about Dresden here)
Both Dresden & Hiroshima were warnings to Russia. And in addition the US were keen to see what an A-bomb could do.
Neither had any military justification.
And as for Hiroshima, your right. We could have just had General Curtis LeMay continue firebombing Japan untill there weren't two sticks standing upright. Silly Americans we decided to save a bunch of lives on both sides by demonstrating our new technological wonder, And it worked after the second demonstration
Too bad we had to use the second one on Nagasaki, we could have threatened the Russians with it if they didn't withdraw out of Eastern Europe. Think how much suffering that would have eliminated in the years that followed.
Originally posted by wolfgang59I think you need to check your facts, Dresden had been bombed repeatedly in the days before. The American and Brits were after the railyards and the factories in Dresden and they also hoped the bombing would stir up chaos as well.
I think the 135,000 estimate is conservative because the population had been inflated by refugees from the East fleeing from the Russians.
Civilian refugees.
It was murder.
And to those that say Dresden was a military target; why had it never been significantly targetted before? The answer is that the allies wanted to show Russia how easily they could devastate a city and for that demonstrtaion they needed one without prior damage.
Your right about the population being swollen with refugees at the time. Its estimated Dresden had a normal population around 682.000 and there were an additional 200,000 who had fled there from the East.
The 135,000 dead is the high end of what most historians say was the number of dead, Joesph Gobbels inflated the number to 200,000 for propaganda purposes.
Originally posted by Cabalikewise, there was no justification for an invasion of mainland Japan in which many more military personnel on both sides would have died...
There is no justification for the deliberate targeting of civilian populations with nuclear weapons. It's a breach of the Geneva convention and is a war crime.
Fair point about Dresden, that was an utter disgrace as well.
in reality, more were saved b/c of the bombs
Originally posted by Cabaand to think...
There was no need to invade Japan with the massive loss of live you talk about. They were a broken nation and naval blockades and conventional bombing would have ultimately brought it's surrender.
Cooking tens of thousands of civilians in a 3000 degree fireball was nothing more than intimidation of the Soviet's.
If the bombs had to be used it should have at least been demonstrated to the Japanese first without the target been a large civilian area.
twenty five years ago, and you would have been arrested on suspicion of being a commie
hmmm...
the good old days...
Originally posted by PhlabibitThey may not have been members of the Nazi Party, but they Were the enemy. We were fighting Germany and her allies. All of them. Every man, woman and child.
Splitting hairs? You said, "...the affected persons were Nazis".
You said anyone affected was a Nazi, and that still isn't true regardless of you punching blind to defend your false statement.
P-
Why?...because that's what war is. There's no sanity in war. It's INSANE. You can't make bleeding heart decisions when your INSANE.
Everything you say is true, But IT DON"T MEAM NOTHING!
G.
Originally posted by smw6869Yep. We were fighting the concentration camp inmates too. 🙄
They may not have been members of the Nazi Party, but they Were the enemy. We were fighting Germany and her allies. All of them. Every man, woman and child.
Why?...because that's what war is. There's no sanity in war. It's INSANE. You can't make bleeding heart decisions when your INSANE.
Everything you say is true, But IT DON"T MEAM NOTHING!
G.
What is wrong with you?
Originally posted by SMSBear716And I never said they were all Nazis
And I never said they were all Nazis, but I think I bet that out of the 35,000 to 135,000 estimated to have been killed and the additional number injured, a good number were Nazis
The whole point at the heart of this discussion was the implied contention that only 'innocent civilians' were killed at Hiroshima, when thats blatantly false. And carrying ...[text shortened]... he effect of helping end the war, and therefore saving a multitude of lives on both sides.
Yes you did. Otherwise you'd have said "some of the people" not "the people".
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI'm not sure,but i don't think we were bombing concentration camp inmates. Were we? Those prisoners were no longer in the war, they have been disarmed and captured.
Yep. We were fighting the concentration camp inmates too. 🙄
What is wrong with you?
There's a lot wrong with me young man. Perhaps you would care for a sample of my wrongness. Come to granny.
G.
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Originally posted by AThousandYoungFine... I'll surrender the point so you don't get so fixated on it. Else next we will be debating what 'is' is :-)
And I never said they were all Nazis
Yes you did. Otherwise you'd have said "some of the people" not "the people".
The whole of the debate is whether the Japanese killed in Hiroshima were 'more inoocent' than the ones killed in Dresden, or during the siege of Warsaw when the Germans invaded.
A few here want us to believe they achieved some sort of higher state of innocence because they were killed by the evil Americans with a nuclear weapon. Would they have been less innocent if a flight of B29s had fire bombed Hiroshima initiating a firestorm like Dresden and leveling more of the city and killing more people?
To the people who died in Hiroshima, Dresden or Warsaw it didn't matter much, they would still be dead.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungMaybe the remaining 43% aren't Rebublicans, but they are either independents or not registered. My many years of experience and wisdom says that there ain't no liberal Dems in the Military. Military service is not part of their beliefs. They dispise the military.
Only 57% of US military personnel are Republicans. I don't know how many of the remaining 43% are liberal Democrats, but certainly all are not conservative Republicans!
G.
Originally posted by smw6869If we were fighting every man, woman and child who were Germans, then we were fighting the German Jews in the concentration camps.
I'm not sure,but i don't think we were bombing concentration camp inmates. Were we? Those prisoners were no longer in the war, they have been disarmed and captured.
There's a lot wrong with me young man. Perhaps you would care for a sample of my wrongness. Come to granny.
G.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungWe were not fighting the German Jews in concentration camps. However, The Germans were.
If we were fighting every man, woman and child who were Germans, then we were fighting the German Jews in the concentration camps.
I think we should meet in the argument room:
Debates Forum.
Funniest debate ever- thread.
Page One.
Be there or be square.
G.