Originally posted by CabaJapan did horrendous things to China throughout the 1930s.
There is no justification for the deliberate targeting of civilian populations with nuclear weapons. It's a breach of the Geneva convention and is a war crime.
Fair point about Dresden, that was an utter disgrace as well.
The atomic bombs pale in comparison.
Originally posted by SMSBear716I think many of those killed were Korean, forced to work in munitions factories.
At the time of the Hiroshima bombing, most the inhabitants were military personnel anyway.
Which was more destructive anyway, the bombings by conventional weaponry which caused huge firestorms because of the construction techniques and materials used in Japanese cities or a nuclear bomb?
What about what happen at Dresden? or was that bad too, even though it was war and the affected persons were Nazis?
I went to Hiroshima, truly amazing place and museum. The Museum tells the story in a very balanced way. The bombs did finish the conflict. They also served as a warning as to the whay weapony had become capable of. This has been one factor why the world has been relatively stable since.
Japan like Germany has responded very well to World War 2 and learnt good lessons. I'm sure other nations could learn from them.
Originally posted by invigorateI have to agree with you. Japan and Germany did the right thing after WW2. Many people at the time, seemed to think that the bombings not only ended the war, but might have ended all "World Wars". I can only hope they are right. Based on current World events, pardon me if I am skeptical.
I think many of those killed were Korean, forced to work in munitions factories.
I went to Hiroshima, truly amazing place and museum. The Museum tells the story in a very balanced way. The bombs did finish the conflict. They also served as a warning as to the whay weapony had become capable of. This has been one factor why the world has been relatively ...[text shortened]... very well to World War 2 and learnt good lessons. I'm sure other nations could learn from them.
Originally posted by SMSBear716Yep, I'd do it, if I trusted that the other guy wouldn't welch on the deal. I'd be very suspicious of any god, devil or djinni which made me such an offer though and I'd probably refuse due to not trusting them.
So targeting the military installations doesn't count in your book? Question did dropping the bomb save lives on boths sides in the final accounting?
Ths discussion reminds me of a movie out a few years ago. Swordfish.
John Travolta plays a interesting character who on the surface seems to just be a very crafty/innovative thief.
But there is a int ...[text shortened]... sponses. I think it would be illuminating indeed.
And yes, I would do it. Wouldn't you?
Originally posted by wolfgang59For my money, Dresden was a callous but blundering act, totally unneccesary at the time because it was not even a military target. It achieved nothing, even hardened civilian resolve.
Both Dresden & Hiroshima were warnings to Russia. And in addition the US were keen to see what an A-bomb could do.
Neither had any military justification.
You may debate the choice of targets in the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
But:
- The US at the time was counting the potential cost of invading the Japanese islands proper and coming up with numbers of US dead in the millions.
- The Japanese had shown no signs of surrender, preferring to die.
- The Japanese still had millions of troops overseas. All willing to die.
- The US only had two bombs - not a warehouse full and weren't even sure how they would work.
- At the end of the day, dropping the bombs stopped the war and saved millions of lives on both sides. It forced an act of reason on the Japanese leadership and I don't have a problem with that.
As a sideshow, the Russians were fast advancing across Japanese held China. This may have been a factor.
Originally posted by usmc7257All who go to war have dirty hands. It's not a question of who has the dirtiest hands, it's where is the big washbasin where we can ALL clean our hands of the past and present deeds?
so in your mind, america had the dirtiest hands?
----this belongs in the debates forum considering you brought the whole thread up to get an argument out of people....
Only than can we begin to work to use the planets resources constructively for a future as one world.
---- I don't care where this is put. I started the thread to highlight the number of people killed at the hands of the Americans in these bombings, whilst other jingoists were posting name by name the victims of 9/11....
Originally posted by buffalobillI think that is a pretty good statement of the facts.
For my money, Dresden was a callous but blundering act, totally unneccesary at the time because it was not even a military target. It achieved nothing, even hardened civilian resolve.
You may debate the choice of targets in the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
But:
- The US at the time was counting the potential cost of invading the Japanese islan ...[text shortened]... how, the Russians were fast advancing across Japanese held China. This may have been a factor.
Originally posted by usmc7257You're absolutely correct: this thread was an attack on america, designed to minimize other posters efforts to remember the 9/11 victims.
so in your mind, america had the dirtiest hands?
----this belongs in the debates forum considering you brought the whole thread up to get an argument out of people....
When coming in to that thread and denouncing the USA, celebrating the terrorists, erasing the victim list, and calling the attacks justified was insufficient to extinguish the ardor of the patriotic participants; this thread appeared.
Originally posted by Red NightAre you calling me a liar?
You're absolutely correct: this thread was an attack on america, designed to minimize other posters efforts to remember the 9/11 victims.
When coming in to that thread and denouncing the USA, celebrating the terrorists, erasing the victim list, and calling the attacks justified was insufficient to extinguish the ardor of the patriotic participants; this thread appeared.
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Originally posted by rhbYou said:
Are you calling me a liar?
"I started the thread to highlight the number of people killed at the hands of the Americans in these bombings, whilst other jingoists were posting name by name the victims of 9/11"
I said:
"this thread was an attack on america, designed to minimize other posters efforts to remember the 9/11 victims"
So, I would say we were in total agreement as to why the thread was started.
Originally posted by Red NightMy post makes no mention of any intent to minimize other posters efforts to remember the 9/11 victims. I'm also surprised that highlighting facts about America can be viewed as an attack on America.
You said:
"I started the thread to highlight the number of people killed at the hands of the Americans in these bombings, whilst other jingoists were posting name by name the victims of 9/11"
I said:
"this thread was an attack on america, designed to minimize other posters efforts to remember the 9/11 victims"
So, I would say we were in total agreement as to why the thread was started.
Despite my view we shouldn't really need any such threads of this type on a chess forum - I'd go on the record to say that if we must have them, then this thread should sit alongside any other memorial threads for the innocent dead of war - be it world war, or terrorism.
I have no wish to censor the efforts of others, which you'd know already if you'd taken off your blinkers and reviewed the 9/11 victim list thread and my contribution to it, plus the 7/7 victim list thread I also began - as a memorial to victims of terrorist attacks.
If I could find a list of those innocents killed during the Norman conquests (1066 and all that) I'd start a thread on that too so it could also be held in memorial, as it seems the vocal majority (or those that shout the loudest and most often) see this as the current RHP forum fashion accessory.