Questions for flat-earthers

Originally posted by sonhouse
There are a thousand questions about gravity and Einstein posed it as just a bending of space, not a real force like magnets or a tornado. Mass causes space to curve and there is plenty of evidence to that effect, curved space also effects the flow of time as well as just going faster or slower.

Recent calculations have shown the core of Earth is a few ...[text shortened]... been proven so it seems a fact that mass causes space to bend and that is what we call gravity.

So, according to that explanation, and another given in another thread where you said nothing is for certain according to "the mathematics of uncertainty", we can safely assume we don't know Jack sheet for sure about anything.

Even our existence is in question. The same old "there are no absolutes" argument I guess. It's all an illusion open to any subjective and relativistic point of view.

I take the opposite point of view. There's an explanation for everything. Everything has a cause and a reason for being. God.

Hang on tight sonhouse, life is a wild ride. Gravity will take its toll.

Originally posted by josephw
You presume too much. It's effecting your objectivity. Never mind what you think is idiotic. We already know how you feel. That's subjectivism. Just focus on the topic.

Did you read my post on gravity above? We know mass bends space, that was proven 100 years ago, almost to the day actually. We even know the formula for that, 4GM divided by the speed of light squared times the radius of the object, 4GM/C^2*r tells the angle light bends around a mass. I even figured out the first focus formula which nobody else has, it's my own contribution to science. Light from a star, say Sirius, has a wave front that is pretty much a straight line as that light passes by the sun but some of it passing close to the surface of the sun gets bent into a cone shape that comes together about 50 billion miles away into space on the other side of the sun. I figured the formula that gives that number directly, the first focus.

My son in law is a physicist and is helping me write it up. He says its not academically interesting, being mere algebra but a very useful derivation nonetheless. So it is worth an actual science paper.

Light going by the sun's surface bends at a proven 1.75 arc seconds because of the mass of the sun.
Using my formula, I did Earth, the moon, and all the rest of the planets of the solar system and it seems they ALL do that bending of light effect and will also focus light out in the distance.

In the 4GM BTW, the G is the gravitational constant and M is mass in kilograms and the radius r is in meters and the bending angle is given by that formula in Radians and if you don't know what radians are just google it.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I guess we could replicate the effect by filling the bath and then introducing a large object/mass (say a football) and then observing how the ball displaces the water causing distortion of the once flat surface.

Until it reaches a state of static equalibrium I think. And since it appears that all the mass in the universe is in a state of flux everything is changing.

I think they call it entropy. 😉

Originally posted by sonhouse
Did you read my post on gravity above? We know mass bends space, that was proven 100 years ago, almost to the day actually. We even know the formula for that, 4GM divided by the speed of light squared times the radius of the object, 4GM/C^2*r tells the angle light bends around a mass. I even figured out the first focus formula which nobody else has, it's m ...[text shortened]... it seems they ALL do that bending of light effect and will also focus light out in the distance.

Yes I read it. I wish I had held back posting until I saw it. Sorry. You know how it is.

Do you think light and mass are both causes for gravity? Or does gravity act alone?

Originally posted by josephw
Yes I read it. I wish I had held back posting until I saw it. Sorry. You know how it is.

Do you think light and mass are both causes for gravity?

Here is a teacher showing the bending of space using spandex:

YouTube

It is only mass that causes the bending of space. Light is massless so it cannot by itself bend space so it cannot generate gravity. Strangely enough, if light is generated at huge power levels, say a really strong laser and you shine the two laser beams together, it can sometimes turn the light into matter with the old relation of E=MC^2.

You rework that by E/M=Mc^2/M = E/M=c^2 and then E/M*E = c^2/E and the E on the left disappears leaving 1/M=c^/E and inverting that you get M=E/c^2 which says you get a lot of energy together and it can create a new mass but the energy disappears and now reappears as the new mass.

THAT resulting matter will bend space, of course just a tiny tiny bit but it does bend space.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Here is a teacher showing the bending of space using spandex:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTY1Kje0yLg

Elemental. I think we've all seen a thousand demonstrations of scientific explanations about how things work theoretically.

Too many if, ands or butts. In my opinion.

To me, regardless of how things work or what the prevailing theory is for explaining how life came into being, whether from nothing or from previously existing energy, the question boils down to the first cause.

Somewhere out there everything, including science, will eventually discover the whole truth. There won't be any theories, only truth. All will be known.

Everything is pointing toward the first cause.

Colossians 2:2-4
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
(Embolden mine)

Originally posted by josephw
Elemental. I think we've all seen a thousand demonstrations of scientific explanations about how things work theoretically.

Too many if, ands or butts. In my opinion.

To me, regardless of how things work or what the prevailing theory is for explaining how life came into being, whether from nothing or from previously existing energy, the question boil ...[text shortened]... edge.
And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
(Embolden mine)[/b]

Till that day arises, we will have to muddle along with scientific genius.

You seem to think that whatever we come up with is useless unless we know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING, and considering it is humanity we are talking about and a universe larger than we can barely imagine, it follows we will probably never get to that level.

If and when we do, we would become like a god. That is unlikely to happen in the short lifespan that humans will be around. Humanity has a maximum lifespan just like all the other life forms on Earth, they come, they go. Various kinds of humans have come and gone in the 4 odd million years since our kind developed, Florensis, Neandertals, Hominids and so forth, they all had their hey day and now are gone and it will be the same with our version of humanity. Maybe something better will come along in the next million or two years or not. We could be the last of the hominids on Earth. Only time will tell.

I for one am not holding my breath for a deity to come down and collect all the dead and resurrect them into some kind of heaven, although why a deity would WANT trillions of humans and Neandertals and Florensis and early hominids around at the same time is beyond me.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So what is it you think is going on when you drop a rock on your toe? Magnetic attraction? Do you deny you will hurt your toe if you drop a rock on it? What is that force that causes the rock to drop?

Don't tell me it's the acceleration of Earth into space. That bullshyte has been shown to be just fantasy already ten times over.

But in order for your ...[text shortened]... ity which is Earth as a spherical object with regular gravity and NASA not lying about anything.

Weight falls because it has density.
If an object has less density than the atmosphere in which it sits, it floats on the density of the atmosphere.

People walk up and down the street, past massive buildings and yet the mass of the building does not attract their much lesser mass.

Comets completely leave the solar system, flying past varying masses without any attraction to any of them... and continue following the same path, regardless.

The sun is the most massive object in the solar system, and yet we have not (and will not) moved/move any closer to it than we are now.
In fact, it does not even attract little ol' Mercury to it: still stuck 36 million miles away.

Gravity.
Pretty powerful force, of course.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Till that day arises, we will have to muddle along with scientific genius.

You seem to think that whatever we come up with is useless unless we know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING, and considering it is humanity we are talking about and a universe larger than we can barely imagine, it follows we will probably never get to that level.

If and when we do, ...[text shortened]... and so forth, they all had their hey day and now are gone and it will be the same with humanity.

No. That's not what I think at all. We're only human. We don't know everything. Maybe we don't need to know everything. My point is that we need to know the one who does know everything.

It's a quantum leap. We can search for answers and be satisfied with what we know, knowing we'll never know all the answers, much less all the questions. I tend to think in terms of the finality of the pursuit of answers to the questions. I leap to the end by acknowledging the first cause. All the answers to all the questions are embodied in one being. Jesus Christ.

Seems like an impossibility to you, but not to me. My understanding is firmly established without a shred of doubt.

Because I "...have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:" Colossians 3:10.

I do that because I know how much you love it when I quote scripture. 😉

Just look at it once. You won't turn into a pillar of salt. 🙂 It's deeper than any science, and more profound than any philosophy. It's not religion.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Weight falls because it has density.
If an object has less density than the atmosphere in which it sits, it floats on the density of the atmosphere.

People walk up and down the street, past massive buildings and yet the mass of the building does not attract their much lesser mass.

Comets completely leave the solar system, flying past varying mass ...[text shortened]... rcury to it: still stuck 36 million miles away.

Gravity.
Pretty powerful force, of course.

You really need to understand basic physics involved in orbital mechanics. You do realize if an object flies by another much more massive object, it will get it's path bent inwards towards that object, right?

So imagine it going slower and slower instead now getting it's path bent more and more till it is going in a circle or ellipse. It is a balance between motion in the right direction and the bending of space around the object. Did you look at the link I posted about orbits? Using spandex to show the bending of space and the effects that produces?

If Mercury as you say can't be pulled into the sun it is because of it's velocity around the sun. If it were to have a giant rocket pushing against the direction of motion and force it to slow down, it WILL crash into the sun.

This is physics 101.

You need to ask more questions rather than making those kind of uninformed off the cuff announcements.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You really need to understand basic physics involved in orbital mechanics. You do realize if an object flies by another much more massive object, it will get it's path bent inwards towards that object, right?

So imagine it going slower and slower instead now getting it's path bent more and more till it is going in a circle or ellipse. It is a balance be ...[text shortened]... ed to ask more questions rather than making those kind of uninformed off the cuff announcements.

In literally every demonstration of space as a fabric with varying weighted objects put into circular orbit upon the fabric, the balls eventually begin circling one another until they meld into the same rapid path... and end up right in the middle.
Meanwhile, in the as-beleived universe?
Expansion.

The fact is, Mr. Physics 101, you cannot demonstrate gravity here on planet earth.
You're able to rename density, but you simply cannot demonstrate any of the alleged properties exclusive to gravity.

Wonder why.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Nah. As you say, mass (in particular the sun) causes space around it to curve. Hey presto, gravity at the speed of light dude.

Where's the mystery Einstein?

That's the prevailing theory, but if we actually knew there wouldn't be other competing theories... because the matter would be settled. And by the way, it's spacetime that curves. Space alone cannot curve unless something variable is a part of it. Some of you other 'Einsteins' seem to forget how time needs to be a part of the fabric of spacetime.



What iyo would (or could) be displaced if you dropped a marble into a bottle containing an absolute vacuum?

Originally posted by lemon lime
That's the prevailing theory, but if we actually knew there wouldn't be other competing theories... because the matter would be settled. And by the way, it's spacetime that curves. Space alone cannot curve unless something variable is a part of it. Some of you other 'Einsteins' seem to forget how time needs to be a part of the fabric of spacetime. ...[text shortened]... uld (or could) be displaced if you dropped a marble into a bottle containing an absolute vacuum?

Okay dude, you bring the time, i'll provide the space and together we'll make a continuum.

Originally posted by josephw
Yes, what causes gravity is a mystery. It appears certain that mass is in some way, if not directly, the cause of gravity. I rather think it is.

Is gravity a pull or a push or both? Is gravity the cause of magnetic fields? Is gravity what keeps all the mass in the universe in a state of equilibrium? Or does gravity create a state of flux kept in equilibri ...[text shortened]... s own force of energy?

Are those questions scientifically valid, or were they worded wrongly?

I wouldn't worry too much over how your questions are worded. Nitpickers will find something wrong with it, they always do. But the fact that you're wondering about this means your mind is doing more than simply puking out wiki quotes.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Okay dude, you bring the time, i'll provide the space and together we'll make a continuum.

Well, if I'm to be in charge of time then my first question would be...


When?