Questions for flat-earthers

Originally posted by sonhouse
It is well known the flow of time changes depending on how deep you are in a gravity field. Atomic clocks are now accurate enough to see the shift in the flow of time when you move an atomic clock a meter up or down compared to another clock of the same technology.

If they are on the same level, they are in sync, if one is now moved to a higher level, sa ...[text shortened]... ty' comes into play.

Did you think you were telling us something new and startlingly fresh?

It is well known the flow of time changes depending on how deep you are in a gravity field.

True, but isn't it possible for time/motion to be the cause of gravity? How can we know for sure which is the primary cause of the other?

I read of an experiment where an object (suspended by magnets in a vacuum) was cooled down to few degrees above absolute zero. The object became notably lighter and began spinning around. As the internal motion of molecules slowed that motion was transfered into causing the object to spin. But the object losing weight (becoming lighter) caught everyones attention, because it suggested the entire internal motion of a mass could possibly be the cause for gravitational effect. This is where time comes into play, and why it is a necessary part of the spacetime fabric.

I'm not saying gravity doesn't have an effect on time because it obviously does. What I'm saying is either one can have an effect on the other, and it's possible that motion (an aspect of time) is actually the primary cause of gravity... it would mean gravity is an effect caused by the ever present internal motion of mass.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"...gravity is just the bending of space and time in response to mass."

That's positively insane. Did science tell you that? Is that a theory, or are you absolutely sure that's how it really works? One would have to be a god to know that sheet! 😉 Unless of course it was revealed by a god to science. 😉[/b]

Need to brush up on your Einstein old chap. 🙂

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Drugs?
Sounds like you need some.
Everything you ascribe to gravity is the domain of density.
You cannot demonstrate gravity on the planet without invoking density.
Beyond that (as usual) you have literally nothing.

Take a handful of snow and compress equally on all sides. The result is a sphere and a demonstration of how gravity works in the universe and why the planets themselves are spherical. It has nothing to do with density. Density wouldn't shape the planets.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"...gravity is just the bending of space and time in response to mass."

That's positively insane. Did science tell you that? Is that a theory, or are you absolutely sure that's how it really works? One would have to be a god to know that sheet! 😉 Unless of course it was revealed by a god to science. 😉[/b]

This post by yourself pretty much sums up why it is generally pointless conversing with you.

Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]It is well known the flow of time changes depending on how deep you are in a gravity field.

True, but isn't it possible for time/motion to be the cause of gravity? How can we know for sure which is the primary cause of the other?

I read of an experiment where an object (suspended by magnets in a vacuum) was cooled down to few degrees above ab ...[text shortened]... ravity... it would mean gravity is an effect caused by the ever present internal motion of mass.[/b]

The subject is called 'gravitoelectromagnetism' and may even be real but we are decades away from actually using such an effect if it actually exists. There is supposed to be some kind of interaction between electromagnetic fields and gravity but it is a weak effect at best. It's not going to get us a propulsion system any time soon for spacecraft.

Originally posted by divegeester
This post by yourself pretty much sums up why it is generally pointless conversing with you.

And you think you know what you're talking about?

Nobody knows what gravity is, apparently. What did Einstein know about gravity? Do you understand it?

I would rue the day some scientist discovered what makes gravity work. They'd build a bomb and we'd all float out into space. 😉

Originally posted by josephw
And you think you know what you're talking about?

Nobody knows what gravity is, apparently. What did Einstein know about gravity? Do you understand it?

I would rue the day some scientist discovered what makes gravity work. They'd build a bomb and we'd all float out into space. 😉

Actually, we have proved what makes gravity go a thousand times over. Every test of relativity has shown it to be true. We can take atomic clocks and see the difference between being in gravity field A Vs field B one meter apart in height. It explains why Mercury has this bit of difference of what Newton would have predicted because it is in the vicinity of the sun and therefore close to that space time curve so time flows a bit slower there and relativity expains it very well.

It is only you who are sceptic and why I don't know. I don't think you really think Earth to be flat so it is not predicated on the flatasssers demanding there be no gravity or some such rot.

So why do you deny we know anything about gravity?

One thing still up in the air, why gravity as a force is millions of times weaker than magnetism or electric fields. The refrigerator magnet which is MAYBE 100 gauss strong holds onto the refrigerator in spite of 8000 miles of solid rock trying to pull it down.

One theory and it is actually only a supposition at this point in time, gravity is spread out over however many extra dimensions there are and therefore is diluted in strength in OUR 3 dimensions plus time.

Till other dimensions are proven to exist, that is only supposition at this point in time. So there is plenty we still have yet to discover about gravity but the main theme is already known. It is mass causing a bending of space/time, time flow changing depending on the depth of the gravity well, deeper into the well, the slower time goes so in a black hole, time is so slow there a trillion years could go by inside while one second goes by here.

So you go up out of the gravity well, like going from where Mercury is now to where pluto is and time runs a bit (just a bit) faster out there. That much we know for a fact, we measured it already. That is where extreme accuracy in atomic clocks, now off by less than a second over the entire 14 billion year history of the universe so very small relativistic effects make themselves known. It is real and here and now. No we don't have antigravity paint like in the kid's sci fi novels (Danny Dunn and his anti-gravity paint🙂, a real story.

Here is a bit that puzzled astronomers for centuries and could not be explained by Newtonian gravity: The odd precession of Mercury around the sun but explained perfectly by relativity:

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/26408/what-did-general-relativity-clarify-about-mercury

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Take a handful of snow and compress equally on all sides. The result is a sphere and a demonstration of how gravity works in the universe and why the planets themselves are spherical. It has nothing to do with density. Density wouldn't shape the planets.

Unfortunately, your demonstration is of physical force (kinetic energy) acting on a physical object (in a condensing fashion), and has literally zero to do with gravity.

Gravity does not get credited when other activities are said to act in the same manner: those activities do not magically become gravity any more than gravity can become any of them.

The fact remains: we cannot demonstrate gravity here on earth.

Explaining the formation of planets on a force which cannot even be established in the first place isn't science; that's science fiction.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Unfortunately, your demonstration is of physical force (kinetic energy) acting on a physical object (in a condensing fashion), and has literally zero to do with gravity.

Gravity does not get credited when other activities are said to act in the same manner: those activities do not magically become gravity any more than gravity can become any of them. ...[text shortened]... force which cannot even be established in the first place isn't science; that's science fiction.

Do you believe the moon is spherical? What about the other planets? Or do you believe the moon and the planets are flat?

Originally posted by vivify
Do you believe the moon is spherical? What about the other planets? Or do you believe the moon and the planets are flat?

The moon is round, although we've never seen it revolve, so I don't know that we can say it is a sphere without overreaching what is actually known.
Any of the wandering stars: same thing.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
The moon is round, although we've never seen it revolve, so I don't know that we can say it is a sphere without overreaching what is actually known.
Any of the wandering stars: same thing.

I think you mean rotate (spin), in which case, planets have been observed doing so; Jupiter takes about nine hours to rotate once.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
The moon is round, although we've never seen it revolve, so I don't know that we can say it is a sphere without overreaching what is actually known.
Any of the wandering stars: same thing.

Actually the moon does revolve and we can see a bit of it because it wobbles in its spin so we can see a bit beyond the horizon in a long term pattern.

We also can demonstrate gravity right here if you have read any of my posts. Gravity effects time and we see that clearly. As well as just dropping a rock. I don't know why you wouldn't see that as gravity. We know the moon goes around Earth in its orbit which takes 28 odd days.

We know orbital mechanics really well, as seen by the recent Juno Jupiter probe which got to its intended place after 5 years of flying through space at 165,000 miles per hour, the rocket burn to get it into Jupiter orbit was off by one second. That is really good timing for a project that was launched 5 years ago.

So we know gravity pretty darn well. Relativity explains many things that Newtonian gravity does not, especially the known precession of Mercury's orbit which Newtonian gravity said nothing. Relativity explains it perfectly. And the bending of light passing by a massive object, like light passing by the surface of the sun bends at an angle of 1.75 seconds of arc BECAUSE of gravity. PREDICTED by Eienstien and verified a few years later and reverified in even more detail decades after that.

Without you having a Phd in physics you have ZERO credibility when you dis science.

You just MOUTH your denials with nothing to back you up except words. Show me papers published in peer reviewed science journals if you want to impress us with your superior knowledge.

Originally posted by sonhouse

Without you having a Phd in physics you have ZERO credibility when you dis science.

I would avoid appeals to authority like this, because there are creationists who have PhDs.

Originally posted by vivify
I think you mean rotate (spin), in which case, planets have been observed doing so; Jupiter takes about nine hours to rotate once.

Revolve:

to move in a circular or curving course or orbit

Originally posted by sonhouse
Actually the moon does revolve and we can see a bit of it because it wobbles in its spin so we can see a bit beyond the horizon in a long term pattern.

We also can demonstrate gravity right here if you have read any of my posts. Gravity effects time and we see that clearly. As well as just dropping a rock. I don't know why you wouldn't see that as gravi ...[text shortened]... lished in peer reviewed science journals if you want to impress us with your superior knowledge.

We always see the same moon, same side faces the earth since time began.

It has never spun on its own axis, instead it follows the same path as the sun through the earth's sky.

What you describe as a demonstration of gravity is correctly defined as density.

You can quote any number of fantastical numbers and ever-increasingly more complex formulas, which necessarily must take place out of the immediate area, but you cannot demonstrate gravity right here on the planet.

Ever.