Originally posted by PhlabibitWhat exactly do you mean that any "info wouldn't be enough"? If you tell the community that X used Junior in games 1, 2, 3 ................ n" and those with that engine check and verify your results, how for the love of Zeus would that "make it impossible to catch cheats in the future"? There might always be some who refuse to believe that a certain player who was their internet "friend" could ever cheat, but such a process would show to the community that there were sufficient reasons to believe player X cheated. I find the stubborn refusal to give out such rudimentary conclusions incomprehensible. You said "look at Exy's games" at least tell me which games to look at and with which engine.
No, really... we can't. Any info given out would never be enough, and just make it impossible to catch cheats in the future.
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Originally posted by no1marauderI can't talk about this anymore... sorry you don't agree with our decision.
What exactly do you mean that any "info wouldn't be enough"? If you tell the community that X used Junior in games 1, 2, 3 ................ n" and those with that engine check and verify your results, how for the love of Zeus would that "make it impossible to catch cheats in the future"? There might always be some who refuse to believe that a certa ...[text shortened]... You said "look at Exy's games" at least tell me which games to look at and with which engine.
The only reason I posted at all today was someone saying we had ulterior motives when banning Exy.
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Originally posted by PhlabibitThat's a price you pay when you refuse to give out any information to support your decisions and when you make assertions that seem ludicrous on their face ("ANY information given out will make it IMPOSSIBLE to catch cheats!"😉.
I can't talk about this anymore... sorry you don't agree with our decision.
The only reason I posted at all today was someone saying we had ulterior motives when banning Exy.
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Originally posted by no1marauderExy has joined “The Chess Knights”. He will feel much more at home there being the site is dominated by computers anyway.
What exactly do you mean that any "info wouldn't be enough"? If you tell the community that X used Junior in games 1, 2, 3 ................ n" and those with that engine check and verify your results, how for the love of Zeus would that "make it impossible to catch cheats in the future"? There might always be some who refuse to believe that a certa ...[text shortened]... You said "look at Exy's games" at least tell me which games to look at and with which engine.
As Dr. Cribs has shown us Exy probably can come back under a new name as I am sure his IP was not blocked…just his password.
Jeeze it isn’t like they took the human behind the computer out and shot him or something!
Let’s try to get things into perspective here.
RTh
Originally posted by RingtailhunterIt is, of course, not primarily about Exy but about what constitutes proof of engine use here. My game analyses and other factors show no evidence of engine use by Exy, so if Exy can be banned for cheating on the mere say so of the Game Mods, then anybody can be. One might say (and I'm sure some will) "It's Russ site etc etc etc" but as one of the ones most vocal in support of the Game Mod concept, I must admit to being shocked at the refusal to give out ANY information or conclusions supporting the Game Mod's decisions. Therefore, for the Game Mods to complain about people assigning ulterior motives to them is silly; it is their insistence that they have no obligation to reveal ANYTHING that raises these questions, no matter how unfounded they may be. Tell us something simple and direct like "Exy used Engine X in these games" and the issue should be resolved. We both know that there are quite a few other usernames here who are using engines blatantly but they remain "playing' while an Exy, with hundreds of losses, is banned. One doesn't have to question their motives to question their competence.
Exy has joined “The Chess Knights”. He will feel much more at home there being the site is dominated by computers anyway.
As Dr. Cribs has shown us Exy probably can come back under a new name as I am sure his IP was not blocked…just his password.
Jeeze it isn’t like they took the human behind the computer out and shot him or something!
Let’s try to get things into perspective here.
RTh
Seeing as speculation, paranoia and heresay is the environment that is being promoted here, I'd like to ask a question...
How did Gatecrasher, who started off with a record of +1 =1 -5 against "1100" Exy's "engine" suddenly turn it around and continue with a record of +6 =0 -0?
http://www.timeforchess.com/core/viewpublicgames.php?p1name=exy&p2name=gatecrasher&showgamescode=A
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Originally posted by RagnorakExy would have to be pretty dumb to continue using an engine against Gatecrasher.
Seeing as speculation, paranoia and heresay is the environment that is being promoted here, I'd like to ask a question...
How did Gatecrasher, who started off with a record of +1 =1 -5 against "1100" Exy's "engine" suddenly turn it around and continue with a record of +6 =0 -0?
http://www.timeforchess.com/core/viewpublicgames.php?p1name=exy&p2name=gatecrasher&showgamescode=A
D
Originally posted by Ragnorakhe only has to use an engine in a game, not all games ...
"1100" Exy beat David Tebb AFTER Gatecrasher's change in fortune against Exy, while only matching up 76% with Crafty.
Pretty good for a 1100 player, eh?
D
his last rating was 1802, peak around 2060 ... maybe he went on vacation and got timed out to achieve 1100 ...
how do the engines match up against each other?
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Originally posted by PhlabibitI still can't see why giving out any info would make it impossible to catch cheats in the future. It's not that the game mods are asked to tell people about all the tools they are using ("we use engines A, B, C, D and E, so if you want to cheat, please use engine F or G" ). If you'd say "we have evidence that user X was using engine Y in games no. a, b, c, d, and e", any other cheaters using that engine would know that they might be caught when they use that engine, but they don't know whether it would help to use engine Z instead because you might check that as well. Quite likely, some of them would simply stop cheating. Others may indeed try different methods, which may or may not be more difficult to detect. I seriously doubt the overall outcome would be a greater cheating problem.
Any info given out would never be enough, and just make it impossible to catch cheats in the future.
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Also, it will never be possible to catch all cheaters anyway. Some will always find a way to get away with cheating. It's not a choice between a system which will ensure that there won't be any cheaters and a system in which people even get help to cheat. It's a choice between a system which is based on secrecy, which will make many innocent people feel unsafe because they feel they might get wrongly accused and banned, and which will evoke long discussions and cause several people to leave every time someone is banned, and a system based on openness in which cheaters will still feel unsafe and are in danger of being banned, but people who don't cheat can be reasonably sure that they won't be banned for cheating because they can see that there are good reasons when someone is banned, as they are shown the evidence or at least part of it.
Originally posted by zeeblebotWHOA! Exy was NEVER an 1100 player! Phlabibit made that ridiculous claim. But from what I've seen about Phlabibit, he plays 1400 level chess, doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground, and is more concerned about serving his political agenda. ðŸ˜
he only has to use an engine in a game, not all games ...
his last rating was 1802, peak around 2060 ... maybe he went on vacation and got timed out to achieve 1100 ...
how do the engines match up against each other?
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Originally posted by zakkwylderNo1, Ragnorak and myself aren't writing in here to defend Exy... the 3 of us are writing our views to defend innocent users in the future. Since we endorsed the mod team we want to make sure they are taking the right path.
The hell with Exy, find something else to quarrel about.
Right guys?
Originally posted by arrakisOh God, that is hilarious. You accusing someone of not knowing what they are talking about.
WHOA! Exy was NEVER an 1100 player! Phlabibit made that ridiculous claim. But from what I've seen about Phlabibit, he plays 1400 level chess, doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground, and is more concerned about serving his political agenda. ðŸ˜
PS. Is Phlab a Democrat or a Republican?