I think these discussions have no merit what-so-ever why talk about something like this other than to start a mass flamming about who is and isnt cheating.
At the end of the day i learn more from my mistakes than my good moves so by that statment those using the engines are learning nothing at all i pity them because they will never learn to enjoy the game as i can.
Originally posted by h4rdriv3You're RIGHT!
I think these discussions have no merit what-so-ever why talk about something like this other than to start a mass flamming about who is and isnt cheating.
At the end of the day i learn more from my mistakes than my good moves so by that statment those using the engines are learning nothing at all i pity them because they will never learn to enjoy the game as i can.
Game 2726042
People using engines obviously "improve" a lot.
D
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Originally posted by h4rdriv3Game 2726042 (Date of game: November 16, 2006 -- Today's date: June 29, 2007)
I think these discussions have no merit what-so-ever why talk about something like this other than to start a mass flamming about who is and isnt cheating.
Originally posted by Ragnorak
You're RIGHT!
Game 2726042
People using engines obviously "improve" a lot.
D
He is 2059 rated now. Ragnorak, are you saying that you think he is using an engine? Is this big a rating jump possible in only 7 months considering the way he was playing that last game?
-- Paul
I was skeptical about detecting engine use, but in a recent thread Gatecrasher, to prove a point, ran my postal draw against Reshevsky through RHP’s detection software and we both came up clean. (Naturally because the game was played before computers). But it was a good test because had it been played today I would have been accused of engine use for sure.Why do you think that you would have been accused of engine use? Good play does not equal engine use. If one divides moves into book positions, forced positions, 'best' move positions and discretionary move positions (see Andrew Soltis 'How to choose a chess move' page 164) then engine use would be most clearly indicated when the player was consistently matching to the engine's choice of move in the discretionary move situation which Soltis defines as cases when it defies analysis to prove that a move was 'best' and 'a Kasparov would play one move, a Karpov would select another and a Shirov might choose a third and none of their choices would be clearly 'best'' (presumably a Fritz might well choose a fourth alternative and if a player were consistently matching to that move then that would be a clear indication that an engine was being used). An engine user could of course switch off the engine when choosing such a move but the ability to identify which moves are actually 'discretionary' would be beyond the abilities of an engine user and so they would not be able to avoid the 'trap'. Your game against Reshevsky probably had a lot of moves that fell into the first two categories above, when there was a 'best' move available you found it on most occasions and as you were not using an engine your match up in the discretionary move positions would be statistically normal. Therefore, there is no reason to think that if the game were played today you would be subject to a supportable accusation of engine use just because you achieved a good result against a 'better' player.
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Originally posted by Dragon Fireso the moral is, be a smart engine user 🙄
I agree with this.
A consistent engine user probably would not be able to evaluate a position correctly on the basis they are not very good at chess so will take similar amounts of time on a move regardless of its difficulty and, as you say, won't look at the more complex games and move on to simple ones, banging them out [i](sometimes with blunders, o assess a position as easy / complex in the first place and an engine can't do that for him.
but seriously, it makes perfect sense and all, but wouldn't you have to take time to look at your opponent's games in progress and compare the dates of the moves to figure cheating? I'm too lazy to do that...😞
Originally posted by Pavlo87im otb 2170 fide i played a bad game i could have enforced a draw but he deserved a win.
Game 2726042 (Date of game: November 16, 2006 -- Today's date: June 29, 2007)
He is 2059 rated now. Ragnorak, are you saying that you think he is using an engine? Is this big a rating jump possible in only 7 months considering the way he was playing that last game?
-- Paul
Also i should mention we ALL have bad games sometimes i come from work and play moves and have 15 mins to make several so i do not always thoroughly analyse this is a mistake on my behalf but if you check the no. of games i am playing you should understand this.
If you read some of my games msgs when i do thoroughly analyses a position and a player wants me too i analyses and give feedback on what i think is good or bad about a move.
Last thing i will say on this matter everyone makes a mistake even kasparov so dont get on my case calling me an engine user. I am enjoying myself playing other challenging players (i would only ever get to meet in a tournament otherwise) in an informal basis so i can learn (i have a fide chess coach but lets face it you want to swim you get in the water you want to be good at chess get a board!).
Now i appologise for my rant i shouldnt really allow others to get to me this way but all this talk of cheats truely is pointless what is to be acheived by this?
Originally posted by Angry BoySurely making moves for your son is third party assistance and not allowed 😕
Bye bye Tawnyowl User 242736 aka fizzz24 User 146171
"Didn't it spring to your brain that I may be making moves for my son, who sometimes can't be arsed to make his moves sometimes"
Tawnyowl's response as to why he'd replied directly to me under another log-in (fizzz24). Talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire!
Should this be bye bye Angry Boy and son?
Originally posted by h4rdriv3worry not, there's nothing in your graph to suggest engine use. making mistakes is not suspicious either. and as has been said before, not making any mistakes is a lot more suspicious. but ultimately, only extensive statistical analysis by the game mods, confirming inhuman matchup with engines, gives grounds for getting banned.
im otb 2170 fide i played a bad game i could have enforced a draw but he deserved a win.
Also i should mention we ALL have bad games sometimes i come from work and play moves and have 15 mins to make several so i do not always thoroughly analyse this is a mistake on my behalf but if you check the no. of games i am playing you should understand this.
If yo ...[text shortened]... t to me this way but all this talk of cheats truely is pointless what is to be acheived by this?
Originally posted by adramforallwhat are the odds for a father agreeing to cheat for his son, who didn't even care about the games enough to move in time?
Surely making moves for your son is third party assistance and not allowed 😕
Should this be [b]bye bye Angry Boy and son?[/b]
what a lousy lie. 🙂
Originally posted by wormwoodWell that might be because im not using one, but why has the community started another posting like this , all i did was say how pointless posts about who is and isnt cheating are and how much hurt they cause and now im the victim myself.
worry not, there's nothing in your graph to suggest engine use. making mistakes is not suspicious either. and as has been said before, not making any mistakes is a lot more suspicious. but ultimately, only extensive statistical analysis by the game mods, confirming inhuman matchup with engines, gives grounds for getting banned.
At the end of the day what is the point? you say someone is a cheat you get forum banned yourself and thats assumeing your right if your wrong your going to upset the other person aswell.
Leave the cheats to do what they will its a false economy (they gain nothing for doing it do they?) im sure they will be caught in the end and as technology improves im sure things like software detection will be added and more and more will be caught but in the end who is and isnt cheating doesnt matter as long as your not doing it yourself and are learning and enjoying yourself.