@sonhouse saidI mean, you are going to say those things no matter what I say; it doesn't take a mind reader to predict what you are going to say since you are very consistent; you don't give a rat's ass what someone says if you think Trump or God is remotely part of that person's makeup, you assume the worse in your opinion.
Ah, you mean you have to BE a mind reader to hear anything from your god?
@KellyJay saidI don't assume the worse, I just go on what you have said over and over.
I mean, you are going to say those things no matter what I say; it doesn't take a mind reader to predict what you are going to say since you are very consistent; you don't give a rat's ass what someone says if you think Trump or God is remotely part of that person's makeup, you assume the worse in your opinion.
And we know FOR SURE if science showed life can come from mud or whatever you WILL poo poo their work because they cannot EVER be right since you always know ONLY god could create life.
@sonhouse saidStop lying; when I want to talk about God, I have no issue talking about God. When I want to talk about science, I have no problem sticking to that, too; that isn't possible because you cannot separate the two, so no matter the topic, you come back with this mind-numbing stuff,
I don't assume the worse, I just go on what you have said over and over.
And we know FOR SURE if science showed life can come from mud or whatever you WILL poo poo their work because they cannot EVER be right since you always know ONLY god could create life.
@KellyJay saidSo you vow if science proves life came from mud you would agree and not bring Goddidit?
Stop lying; when I want to talk about God, I have no issue talking about God. When I want to talk about science, I have no problem sticking to that, too; that isn't possible because you cannot separate the two, so no matter the topic, you come back with this mind-numbing stuff,
I imagine your response would go something like this,
Without actually saying yes or no you would go THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Science will NEVER be able to prove life could come from mud. (or whatever they find in the future that DOES produce life without a deity)
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@sonhouse saidSure, prove it, but that means when we speak about such things, you or I cannot bring God into it, by the rules of science, we both will be bound.
So you vow if science proves life came from mud you would agree and not bring Goddidit?
I imagine your response would go something like this,
Without actually saying yes or no you would go THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Science will NEVER be able to prove life could come from mud. (or whatever they find in the future that DOES produce life without a deity)
@KellyJay saidNo, you can just admit that no matter what science comes up with on origins of life, you will never accept it.
Sure, prove it, but that means when we speak about such things, you or I cannot bring God into it, by the rules of science, we both will be bound.
@sonhouse saidYou prove it I will have to accept it, I could say the same about you, no matter what you will accept it even if it is shown unreliable. We have an audience that can cry foul, and I imagine most are already on your side.
No, you can just admit that no matter what science comes up with on origins of life, you will never accept it.
@sonhouse saidThought experiment, you get to pick any age of the universe, you get to pick when life started, I will grant abiogenesis without question at that time, and evolution through mutation from that point forward. So far you set everything.
No, you can just admit that no matter what science comes up with on origins of life, you will never accept it.
What I would like you to explain is human life which is made up of 200 different cells and 30 trillion overall. How many mutations per year is required to go from where you say life started till now?
There are all kinds of other life to, for now humanity is enough.
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@KellyJay saidThe universe contains an enormous amount of galaxies each one of which has billions of stars, so quadrillions of possible planets and we have life on Earth.
@KellyJay
You can start around the time of the earliest known life, (cite source) or pull one out thin air no justication required.
Seems to me the probabilities are extremely low that Earth is the only place in the universe where life exists.
So if a god was responsible for life, then for a god to be managing the move towards life that management would extend like a wide area flashlight, a push to life here would extend to life in a large swath of the universe so it seems no matter what situation creates life there should be life most anywhere in the universe where conditions are even halfway good for life.
And such push to life would mean there IS life all over the universe and starting pretty early on, the James Webb scope has found organic molecules around stars 13 billion light years away, allegedly only a relatively short time after the beginning of the universe so it seems to me no matter what time frame you talk about life will be there. 13 billion years is enough time for entire galaxies to come and go much less individual stars so it seems to me in that case life would evolve, go extinct get started up on a somewhat younger planet around a younger star so it would be a matter of life starting and ending in long periods of time, enough time for the parent star to go bust.
So it looks to me like there is a constant upheaval of life forming, evolving, maximizing in whatever is possible for that particular life form and because STARS die so will eventually life on any planet around that star unless there is energy available such as is seen in some of the moons of the outer giant planets that because of tidal interactions from a giant planet grinding up the guts of a moon, heat would be generated and allow life to continue in some form inside a moon which has water and without tides would be solid ice which is not conducive to life so it seems to me life is in a constant seething surge of beginning, evolving and extinction all over the universe so in that aspect it would not matter much which era of the universe one chose to find life. Whether Goddidit or natural occurrence.
@sonhouse saidI'm not concerned about you justifying anything you bring to the exercise, so assume I will not disagree with any date you choose for the age of the universe or life starting on this planet. I'm not concerned with the difficulty in abiogenesis I'm giving it to you, so you don't have to concern yourself about that either, I'm also giving you evolution as a working process and will not dispute that either, just from point A to Z, the start of life to what is required for over 30 trillion cells being to form.
The universe contains an enormous amount of galaxies each one of which has billions of stars, so quadrillions of possible planets and we have life on Earth.
Seems to me the probabilities are extremely low that Earth is the only place in the universe where life exists.
So if a god was responsible for life, then for a god to be managing the move towards life that managemen ...[text shortened]... atter much which era of the universe one chose to find life. Whether Goddidit or natural occurrence.
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@KellyJay saidConsidering the fact my expertise is cleanroom semiconductor manufacturing machinery I can't contribute a thing to life origins and all I have is looking at recent results which point to more and more complex molecules coming out of experiments like modernization of the original Miller experiment.
I'm not concerned about you justifying anything you bring to the exercise, so assume I will not disagree with any date you choose for the age of the universe or life starting on this planet. I'm not concerned with the difficulty in abiogenesis I'm giving it to you, so you don't have to concern yourself about that either, I'm also giving you evolution as a working process an ...[text shortened]... t from point A to Z, the start of life to what is required for over 30 trillion cells being to form.
Any other stance would be arrogance on display.
I never said I knew how life started and if science proves goddidit I will have to live with it.
But I consider that unlikely, for one thing, showing scientifically there is a god seems an impossible task.
That would seem to me to be a god coming down and meeting with people, probably in some kind of humanoid made up body and no god has come down to talk to humans in the past 2000 years at least and to my mind not even in ancient history but it would take a god making the effort to make a link with mankind and not the other way round.
I don't know if we EVER could advance our technology high enough to attract the attention of a god, atomic bombs didn't do it so I have no idea what would. We would be like termites in a stick to it.
@sonhouse saidIt was a simple math problem, I spent 20 years dealing with CPU R&D and that too has nothing to do with the math problem.
Considering the fact my expertise is cleanroom semiconductor manufacturing machinery I can't contribute a thing to life origins and all I have is looking at recent results which point to more and more complex molecules coming out of experiments like modernization of the original Miller experiment.
Any other stance would be arrogance on display.
I never said I knew how life ...[text shortened]... atomic bombs didn't do it so I have no idea what would. We would be like termites in a stick to it.
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@KellyJay saidSimple math problem? What problem? the probability of life forming from mud or whatever in planets around the universe like the Drake equation?
It was a simple math problem, I spent 20 years dealing with CPU R&D and that too has nothing to do with the math problem.
In your time in R&D, what was the size of the individual transistors back then?
Now they are striving for TWO frigging nanometers, I think 4 is what is in production.
At that rate they are counting individual atoms! My old ion implanters would be like a tornado to those transistors. When they were microns across you needed some 100,000 volts of accel to penetrate deep enough to make a buried conductive layer but now you breath on it and you are in.