Originally posted by TRACKHEAD21 ok now not knowing stuff like that and being a 2000+ player I could see questioning that players true ability. Though i'd still like to believe there has to be a couple who really are that good and still don't know.
Id find it hard to believe that anyone can play with the ablitiy of 2000 without a lot of learning, be that club games (they will have a club rating), or books/tutors. Maybe some 2000 rated players might have somehow missed "en prise" in all their play but they would still have to have a very good understanding of chess principles. One of the most objective ways is to have people give their thoughts on intresting moves instead of the best engine moves. JW was asked to find an intresting attacking idea, in a given position, he listed the top 3 CM10 moves before I got bored and told him. The move would have been straight foward to anyone over 2000. Darvley worked it out after only a few minutes of thought, while he has probably never stuided the principle of the play required, he was still able to work the move out. Its this lack of chess culture that sets the cheaters apart. There are people who have started using an engine from day 1 on the site and match up 100% to fritz, yet they are an accepted part of the site no one has suspected them at all, or if they did they never mentioned it. I think people will be in for a shock once the chess mods start.
That's what we need. Chess quizes. If you don't get the results to go along with your rating, -100 rating points. 😉
It might just work.
: D
:-D
Its all there for public reading on FW. After he bodged it all up, JW was asked to explain the moves and why they were good, he went and copied the natural advice language thingy from CM10 and tried to pretend he wrote it :-)
I haven't read all of this thread, i don't have time im afraid. If any of what i say has been suggested already, my appologies.
The way i see it, there are two kinds of cheats.
1. 'Players' who use programs (the hardest one's to spot)
2. 'Players' who set up multiple accounts to boost their rating.
The problem which the cheat police (CP) are going to encounter when trying to deal with program users is not so much whether they can establish whether a 'player' is using one or not, it will be their capacity to deal with thenumber of allegations of cheating. Therefore i suggest that it be possible for the 'CP' (sounds a bit like the SS 😲) be able to store details of potential cheats.
For Example...
If, in every players profile, there was an anonimous 'report this player to the CP' link, a minimum number of accusations will need to be reached before the CP are called in to act. When reporting a player, the accuser would need to add the game number. Once the minimum number of accusations is reached the players suspected games are passed for analysis. This should cut down the time involved in finding examples of cheating and hpoefully weed out bad accusations from begrudging loosers.
Should the CP decide that a player has in fact been using an engine, i suggest that that players rating be dropped to p1200. All games they are playing will automatically be resigned but no rating points are awarded to the opponent (otherwise people might try to abuse the system). The 'player' will then have a 'Computer cheat' icon added to their profile for the duration of their provisional status. This icon would link to an faq on site policy about programs and ensure the 'player' get's the message that this site does not accept cheating. Once they have completed their parole, it would be removed and they could continue (or start) playing as normal. Should that player again be accussed of cheating, the accusation will be dealt with straight away and any 'conviction' will result in a total and instant ban with no refund.
It might be an idea to keep a few details about accusers as well. If someone accuses lots of people and bogs down the whole system they should loose their right to accuse people.
As for dealing with multiple account holders, i feel this is easy to spot. By simply looking in the player directory, the CP will be able to spot suspicious accounts without too much difficulty. I think that the majority of 'players' who do this are kids. I would suggest that a similar approach be taken as with program users, though obviously without the computer cheat icon.
Originally posted by marinakatomb If, in every players profile, there was an anonimous 'report this player to the CP' link, a minimum number of accusations will need to be reached before the CP are called in to act. When reporting a player, the accuser would need to add the game number. Once the minimum number of accusations is reached the players suspected games are passed for analys ...[text shortened]... in finding examples of cheating and hpoefully weed out bad accusations from begrudging loosers.
I dont think this is a good idea, just because someone is good at hiding their cheating that is no reason why they should get special treatment, some people arent even good at hiding their cheating but no one, who knows how engines play have bothered to look at their games until quite recently.
A lot of the people who have put there names down for the CP have also said that they dont know much about chess engines or the way they play, id expect that to change quite rapidly as they see more and more example of cheaters games, it would be a learning experience for everyone on the team.
I think Russ is making a forum for the CP so they could look up past cases there. I imagine that anyone just making constant unfounded accusations will be repremanded in some way like those who have alerted mutiple posts for no reason.
Ideas for dealing with engines.
02 Dec '04 22:53
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