06 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyIt means what it says (archaic language notwithstanding).
Can you tell me what this verse means:
Act 2:22:
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know"
What's your point?
06 Nov 06
2 edits
Originally posted by ahosyneyWhat does the verse I cited earlier mean?
Where could I find that in the Bible that they worship him?
When did they know that he is GOD, during his life or after his death.
Probably after His Resurrection.
Did they worthship[sic] him or GOD.
It's not an either/or situation.
06 Nov 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerIs there any thing else except John 20:28.
What does the verse I cited earlier mean?
[b]When did they know that he is GOD, during his life or after his death.
Probably after His Resurrection.
Did they worthship[sic] him or GOD.
It's not an either/or situation.[/b]
Lets assume that Jesus is not GOD and you read John 20:28, can't you understand anything else.
06 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyWell, in a sense Jesus was a messenger of Yahweh (i.e. God the Father or simply "God" to the Jews).
I think it means that Peter belived that Jesus is a man sent by GOD as a messanger.
What do you think.
But Peter clearly does not believe that's the only thing He was. Read the whole speech beginning from v.14. Note, for instance v.21 (where Peter is quoting Joel) and compare it to v.38.
06 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by ahosyneyWhy should I look for an alternate interpretation of John 20:28 except for the most plain reading?
Is there any thing else except John 20:28.
Lets assume that Jesus is not GOD and you read John 20:28, can't you understand anything else.
EDIT: I might as well provide you a link:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Divinity_of_Christ.asp
It has Bible verses as well as quotes from Apostolic and other Early Church Fathers (all pre-Nicaea).
06 Nov 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerBecause Jesus said that he is a man, and he is a prophet.
Why should I look for an alternate interpretation of John 20:28 except for the most plain reading?
John Chapter 17
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
all Matt 11:27, 28:18, Luke 10:22, John 3:35, 1st Cor 15:27, Eph 1:21
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
What I understand from these verses that Jesus declare that he was sent by GOD to ask us to worship the GOD and he is the only GOD.
Don't you agree with me?
06 Nov 06
4 edits
Originally posted by ahosyneyWell, Jesus was a man and also a prophet. But those weren't the only things he was. And they aren't the only things these verses speak of.
Because Jesus said that he is a man, and he is a prophet.
John Chapter 17
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
all M ...[text shortened]... as sent by GOD to ask us to worship the GOD and he is the only GOD.
Don't you agree with me?
In v.1 Jesus is invoking a priestly function.
In v.2 He refers to His kingly function.
In v.3-4 He refers to His prophetic function.
In v.5 He refers to His divinity and His heavenly glory (what do you think "the glory that I had with you before the world began" implies?)
EDIT: Go on to read v.11 in the same prayer by Jesus. What do you think that verse means?
"And now I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, while I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are. "
06 Nov 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerNow we agree in two points:
Well, Jesus was a man and also a prophet. But that weren't the only things he was. And it isn't the only thing these verses speak of.
In v.1 Jesus is invoking a priestly function.
In v.2 He refers to His kingly function.
In v.3-4 He refers to His prophetic function.
In v.5 He refers to His divinity and His heavenly glory (what do you think "the glory that I had with you before the world began" implies?)
1. He was a man.
2. And he was a prophet. And that is what I belive.
Let discuss the third point.
Is the 5th imply that he is GOD?
May be or may be not...
Are prophets for GOD the same as us.
Don't they have more Glory than we have.
So Jesus has Glory because he is a prophet.
But if you want to say that the glory because he is GOD me and you will face many problem to infer it from the 5th verse.
Simply because Jesus is talking to someone else. Not talking to himself. How could he be a GOD and talk to GOD.
06 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by ahosyneyIs the 5th imply that he is GOD?
Now we agree in two points:
1. He was a man.
2. And he was a prophet. And that is what I belive.
Let discuss the third point.
Is the 5th imply that he is GOD?
May be or may be not...
Are prophets for GOD the same as us.
Don't they have more Glory than we have.
So Jesus has Glory because he is a prophet.
But if you want to say that t ...[text shortened]... esus is talking to someone else. Not talking to himself. How could he be a GOD and talk to GOD.
v.5 implies that he is divine. It does not imply that he is the same person (i.e. have the same intellect and will) as the Father.
Are prophets for GOD the same as us.
Don't they have more Glory than we have.
Not before they're created, no. Read the verse again -- note when Jesus says the Father glorified him.
So Jesus has Glory because he is a prophet.
How many prophets do you know have been around since before the creation of the world?
EDIT: Simply because Jesus is talking to someone else. Not talking to himself. How could he be a GOD and talk to GOD.
I never said Jesus wasn't talking to another person. God the Father and Jesus Christ are distinct persons, even though they are both divine and of one divine substance.
06 Nov 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerVerses like John 17:11 and John 20:28 could imply to meanings. According to your belive it imply Jesus divinity. For me it imply something else.
Well, Jesus was a man and also a prophet. But those weren't the only things he was. And they aren't the only things these verses speak of.
In v.1 Jesus is invoking a priestly function.
In v.2 He refers to His kingly function.
In v.3-4 He refers to His prophetic function.
In v.5 He refers to His divinity and His heavenly glory (what do you think ...[text shortened]... your name that you have given me, [b]so that they may be one just as we are. "[/b]
What resolve this problem is a clear decleration from Jesus or GOD..
I claim that Jesus is a prophet. I gave you a clear delaration from Jesus that he is a man and a prophet, and you agreed with me in part of it.
So you have to show me something similar for your claim. Am I right?
06 Nov 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerV. 5 doesn't imply that Jesus was there before the creation. It imply that his Glory exist before the creation.
[b]Is the 5th imply that he is GOD?
v.5 implies that he is divine. It does not imply that he is the same person (i.e. have the same intellect and will) as the Father.
Are prophets for GOD the same as us.
Don't they have more Glory than we have.
Not before they're created, no. Read the verse again -- note when Jesus s ...[text shortened]... st are distinct persons, even though they are both divine and of one divine substance.[/b]
GOD knew that Jesus will come and gave him the Glory.
Same as any other prophet.
Don't you agree with me that GOD knows each creation he will create including me and you.
If GOD knows that he will create Jesus can't he give Jesus glory before he create him.
You said that V.5 imply that V.5 imply that his divinity but he is not the same person..!!!! I really don't understand this...
06 Nov 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerWhat do you say when you are surprised with someone you don't expect. Don't you say "MY GOD".
Give me an alternate meaning of Jn 20:28.
If I belive that Jesus is a man and he is not GOD I will understand it this way.
Tomase was surprised that he sees Jesus while he knows that he is dead. So he said "MY GOD".
Does this make sense to you....
06 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyIt imply that his Glory exist before the creation.
V. 5 doesn't imply that Jesus was there before the creation. It imply that his Glory exist before the creation.
GOD knew that Jesus will come and gave him the Glory.
Same as any other prophet.
Don't you agree with me that GOD knows each creation he will create including me and you.
If GOD knows that he will create Jesus can't he give Jesus glo ...[text shortened]... mply that his divinity but he is not the same person..!!!! I really don't understand this...
Huh? What does "the glory I had with you before the world was" mean?
You said that V.5 imply that V.5 imply that his divinity but he is not the same person..!!!! I really don't understand this...
It's called the doctrine of the Trinity. The Father and the Son are both divine and of the same substance; but they are distinct persons (i.e. they have distinct divine intellects and wills).