27 Jan 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieJesus said ALL Christians should 'go forth to the nations for a witness'? I'd like to see that verse.
wow, you really dont know anything about Jehovahs Witnesses, every single Jehovahs witness that qualifies has a public ministry, after all Jesus did say to ALL Christians to go forth to the nations for a witness did he not, the admonition to let your light shine was given to ALL Christians was it not, ALL our elders have a public ministry, they go fr ...[text shortened]... Jehovah%27s_Witnesses
http://www.brin.ac.uk/news/2011/church-attendance-in-england-1980-2005/
27 Jan 14
Originally posted by Proper Knobthen you shall need to explain why the admonition given at Matthew 28:19,20 to go forth teaching and preaching as a witness to the nations applies only to a limited number of Christians, why the admonition to let your light shine before all men, applies only to a number of Christians and why the illustration of the talents applies only to a limited number of Christians, why the illustrations of the harvest only applies to a limited number of Christians etc etc etc etc etc
Jesus said ALL Christians should 'go forth to the nations for a witness'? I'd like to see that verse.
27 Jan 14
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThen Barnabas departed for Tarsus to seek Saul. And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
then you shall need to explain why the admonition given at Matthew 28:19,20 to go forth teaching and preaching as a witness to the nations applies only to a limited number of Christians, why the admonition to let your light shine before all men, applies only to a number of Christians and why the illustration of the talents applies only to a limited n ...[text shortened]... illustrations of the harvest only applies to a limited number of Christians etc etc etc etc etc
(Acts 11:25-26 NKJV)
Obviously, Jesus never said "ALL CHRISTIANS" should do anything because the word "CHRISTIAN" was not used before Jesus departed.
The Holy Spirit calls different people for different tasks. That is why I said I do not feel called to go into all the world etc, etc, etc.
Originally posted by RJHindslook deep into your conscience Hinds, you know what I am saying is true.
[b]Then Barnabas departed for Tarsus to seek Saul. And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
(Acts 11:25-26 NKJV)
Obviously, Jesus never said "ALL CHRISTIANS" should do anything becau ...[text shortened]... ifferent tasks. That is why I said I do not feel called to go into all the world etc, etc, etc.[/b]
The Holy spirit and its operation is not an inducement for spiritual laziness, what is more, these gifts were only temporary making the assertion that there is a correlation between a Christians sacred duty to help others with the good news of Gods Kingdom and the operation of these gifts quite erroneous, how do we know, because after telling the disciples to go to people of all the nations Jesus said, look, I am with you until the conclusion of the system, not so with the case of these 'gifts', of the spirit.
Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things - Matthew 28:19,20
this work has the backing of the Christ, those who are engaging in it are working and walking with the Christ, he is with them until the conclusion of the system. Your personal preferences are quite irrelevant in the matter.
27 Jan 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo where does Jesus use the phrase 'ALL Christians'?
then you shall need to explain why the admonition given at Matthew 28:19,20 to go forth teaching and preaching as a witness to the nations applies only to a limited number of Christians, why the admonition to let your light shine before all men, applies only to a number of Christians and why the illustration of the talents applies only to a limited n ...[text shortened]... illustrations of the harvest only applies to a limited number of Christians etc etc etc etc etc
27 Jan 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAnd He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head —Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
where does Jesus use the phrase, 'not all Christians'? By mere default his teachings are for ALL Christians are they not?
(Ephesians 4:11-16 NKJV)
There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
... And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
(1 Corinthians 12:4-11, 28-30 NKJV)
27 Jan 14
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieChrist can only be with us now through the Holy Spirit. Christ said that is why He must go to the Father so He could send the Holy Spirit to teach us. Maybe there is no Holy Spirit gifts available to the JWs because they are not Christians.
look deep into your conscience Hinds, you know what I am saying is true.
The Holy spirit and its operation is not an inducement for spiritual laziness, what is more, these gifts were only temporary making the assertion that there is a correlation between a Christians sacred duty to help others with the good news of Gods Kingdom and the operation ...[text shortened]... ntil the conclusion of the system. Your personal preferences are quite irrelevant in the matter.
Originally posted by RJHindsThats not what the verse says Hinds, Jesus said he would be with those who are teaching and preaching until the conclusion of the system, the system has not ended yet and no amount of lies can help you to evade the fact.
Christ can only be with us now through the Holy Spirit. Christ said that is why He must go to the Father so He could send the Holy Spirit to teach us. Maybe there is no Holy Spirit gifts available to the JWs because they are not Christians.
It is quite sad that you have attempted to offer up excuse after excuse, attempting to twist verses, attempting to state that your personal preferences are greater than Christs work, attempting to state that these temporary gifts excuse you, let me tell you something Hinds, there is NO EXCUSE for those who hide their light and who bury the talent.
27 Jan 14
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhere do you see TEMPORARY GIFTS by the Holy Spirit? Oh, I know, in your AWAKE magazine.
Thats not what the verse says Hinds, Jesus said he would be with those who are teaching and preaching until the conclusion of the system, the system has not ended yet and no amount of lies can help you to evade the fact.
It is quite sad that you have attempted to offer up excuse after excuse, attempting to twist verses, attempting to state that ...[text shortened]... you something Hinds, there is NO EXCUSE for those who hide their light and who bury the talent.
Originally posted by RJHindsWhy you seem unable to reason from scripture is known only to you, why you feel the necessity to make references to Jehovah witnesses and their publications is known only to you, I have not mentioned either and have instead been prepared to remain closely within the realms of scripture, i suspect that its because your arguments concerning scriptures are so weak.
Where do you see TEMPORARY GIFTS by the Holy Spirit? Oh, I know, in your AWAKE magazine.
Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 1 Cor 13:8
The apostle demonstrates clearly that these gifts would cease because they were temporary.
And he gave some as apostles,some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ, until we all attain to the oneness of the faith and of the accurate knowledge of the Son of God - Ephesians 4
once again demonstrating that these gifts were temporary.
27 Jan 14
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou did not read far enough.
Why you seem unable to reason from scripture is known only to you, why you feel the necessity to make references to Jehovah witnesses and their publications is known only to you, I have not mentioned either and have instead been prepared to remain closely within the realms of scripture, i suspect that its because your arguments concerning scriptures ...[text shortened]... dge of the Son of God - Ephesians 4
once again demonstrating that these gifts were temporary.
But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
(1 Corinthians 13:10 NKJV)
That which is perfect has not come yet nor have we come to the oneness of the faith, my feathered friend. So the Holy Spirit gifts have not been done away with. You are taught that because the JWs never received and gifts of the Spirit.
Originally posted by RJHindsThe Bible is perfect and complete, the Christ sits as King of Gods Kingdom, and your words have no efficacy for even if we grant it, it still does not negate the fact that these gifts were to be of a temporary nature as the text clearly demonstrates. There are no miracles any more, no gifts of tongues, nothing for as Paul states, these gifts were inferior to love and faith and hope and to be done away with. On the contrary, we have achieved oneness of faith, all tribes, nations and tongues worshiping in the house of Jehovah! and its beautiful!
You did not read far enough.
[b] But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
(1 Corinthians 13:10 NKJV)
That which is perfect has not come yet nor have we come to the oneness of the faith, my feathered friend. So the Holy Spirit gifts have not been done away with. You are taught that because the JWs never received and gifts of the Spirit.[/b]
27 Jan 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThey've never seen any of this in their churches and among their members. It is truly a mystery to them.
The Bible is perfect and complete, the Christ sits as King of Gods Kingdom, and your words have no efficacy for even if we grant it, it still does not negate the fact that these gifts were to be of a temporary nature as the text clearly demonstrates. There are no miracles any more, no gifts of tongues, nothing for as Paul states, these gifts were i ...[text shortened]... of faith, all tribes, nations and tongues worshiping in the house of Jehovah! and its beautiful!
If their government tells them to go fight and kill, even ones of their own faith, they do it. Their governments insist on all to follow their leaders which they do instead of listening to the words of Christ words in showing love and peace to all.
More importantly they do not see the need to do as Jesus COMMANDED his followers to, which could help save millions of life's at Armageddon. They'd rather sit here a argue over the truths in the Bible that they are simply not wanting to see and apply to themselves as it affects their comfort zones, and then they even condemn us for doing it.
It makes them look really bad and that really bothers them.
"The world hates what is not it's own". Satan controls the world just as is said in the Bible. So ones who do not fall in line with the world are it's enemy.
27 Jan 14
Originally posted by RJHinds"then that which is in part will be done away." Lol, you really don't see this do you? Wow!!!
You did not read far enough.
[b] But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
(1 Corinthians 13:10 NKJV)
That which is perfect has not come yet nor have we come to the oneness of the faith, my feathered friend. So the Holy Spirit gifts have not been done away with. You are taught that because the JWs never received and gifts of the Spirit.[/b]