Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"i would explain why you are wrong but you are so wrong that i won't bother"
interesting debating technique. and it is interesting how you misrepresented my stance.
the bible is a collection of teachings. kind of like the fables of la fontaine. nobody thinks the story of the cricket and the ant actually happened. they ignore that and move to what is ...[text shortened]... at least in part what sonhouse said: "the bible has some REALLY stupid stories in it"
the bible is a collection of teachings.
There is also poetry and songs and history in the Bible. We Christians believe that God spoke in many ways.
The book of Romans is full of teaching.
The Song of Solomon is poetry as well as the book of Job.
kind of like the fables of la fontaine. nobody thinks the story of the cricket and the ant actually happened.
It is a gigantic over simplification to compare the many things written in the Bible to Aesop's fables. Luke, for example, is definitely a researching journalist collecting, sifting through, and arranging eyewitness testimony for a historical record.
Comparing the Gospel of Luke to a collection of Aesop's fables or Grimm's fairy tales is not sober literary analysis.
they ignore that and move to what is important: the teaching:
But how do we know the following is not being done by some people.
Ie. I don't like this about the resurrection of Jesus or the resurrection and judgment of all sinners. So I discount that and go to what is ... important. What is "important" are things which have nothing to do with God or God's power. It is not important that there is a judgment day. It is important that I keep the golden rule. It is not important that I need to be saved. It is important that I view Jesus as a good imaginary example to at least try to imitate somewhat to be a good person.
Talking about "What is important" can be an excuse for devaluating portions that one simply finds bothering.
don't be lazy and save food for winter. you however, and people like you, disconnect your brain, and think the fable of the flood actually happened.
Jesus treated some of the judgment stories of the Old Testament as definitely world history.
For example - He said that "Ninevite men will stand up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold something more than Jonah is here." (Matt. 12:41)
It is not realistic to think Jesus is saying fictitious people will be there along with real people on the day of judgment. So Jesus must have taken the story in Jonah as real world history involving real people. Latter contemporary people and the men of Nineveh will be together on the day of judgment.
Because Jesus took the Old Testament seriously, I am also compelled to take it seriously.
nevermind the fact that there is absolutely no science to support it, and nevermind the actual teaching (don't be a jerk or bad stuff will happen to you), you actually believed 8 people managed to take care of a gajilion animals, on a boat, when most zoos with but a fraction of those animals employ a hundred people(just one of the numerous things wrong with the flood).
Because Jesus seems to take the story of Noah seriously, I decided that I should also take it seriously. Does Jesus seem to you to be a man who is self deceived or naïve ?
I came to the Old Testament through the New. When I first began to read the Bible I had a huge filter of skepticism about many of the Old Testament accounts. When eventually the integrity of Jesus moved beyond my suspicions I decided what was good for Him must be good.
It is not insignificant that a man like Jesus took so many Old Testament writings as serious history.
The limitless power of a Creator God is captured in the first sentence of the Bible - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Gen. 1:1)
With such eternal power and wisdom should I assume that instructing the building of a large vessel with lots of animals is too hard for God to orchestrate ? Fountains of the deep breaking up and rain pouring down together cannot make a flood to cover mountain tops ?
I'd rather think that things are ABOUT to happen on earth which we probably think are impossible as well.
Originally posted by Zahlanzi"i base my view on science, i don't look for science to support my view (that i wouldn't have had any reason to form in the first place)"
You are the one following drone-like whatever science supports your view
wrong. i base my view on science, i don't look for science to support my view (that i wouldn't have had any reason to form in the first place)
There isn't any real evidence.
countless scientists and people who understand the evidence and the very real evidence disagree.
"W ...[text shortened]... es. it is right next to having the right to mock adults who believe in santa-claus.
I would really like it if someone could interpret the above for me.
I base my view on God's Word. Believe me, you really want to know what that means.
Originally posted by sonship"Talking about "What is important" can be an excuse for devaluating portions that one simply finds bothering. "the bible is a collection of teachings.
There is also poetry and songs and history in the Bible. We Christians believe that God spoke in many ways.
The book of Romans is full of teaching.
The Song of Solomon is poetry as well as the book of Job.
[quote]
kind of like the fables of la fontaine. nobody thinks the story of the cr ...[text shortened]... ngs are ABOUT to happen on earth which we probably think are impossible as well.
so we stupidly ignore the facts and consider everything important, even those blatantly contradicting science. yes, that's a very intelligent thing to do. do you wonder why people think fundies are idiots?
jesus spoke in parables to get the message across. not to mention i don't say there wasn't a jonah who preached to the assyrians, i argue that such a fish species as the one that ate doesn't exist.
" Because Jesus took the Old Testament seriously, I am also compelled to take it seriously. "
because jesus took one story from the old testament seriously let's believe it is 100% correct. adam and eve didn't exist the way they are pictured in the genesis. the world didn't get created in 7 days and the earth is not 7000 years old. the flood did not happen. period. that is not up for debate. we can only debate what jesus meant when he mentioned adam and eve or something else from the OT. we can only debate the moral of the flood, and that is a stretch, because there is hardly a moral in global genocide.
"Fountains of the deep breaking up and rain pouring down together cannot make a flood to cover mountain tops ? "
no. not enough water. not possible.
"I'd rather think that things are ABOUT to happen on earth which we probably think are impossible as well"
interesting you should say that, it seems you whine we think some things are impossible, yet you whine that evolution is impossible. the only difference between you and i is that i base my evolution view on science, on genetics, proven and verified, on countless fossil data. you base your view on an old book that is at best outdated and at worst filled with horrible horribleness
Originally posted by ZahlanziAnd there is NOTHING worse than horrible horribleness!
"Talking about "What is important" can be an excuse for devaluating portions that one simply finds bothering. "
so we stupidly ignore the facts and consider everything important, even those blatantly contradicting science. yes, that's a very intelligent thing to do. do you wonder why people think fundies are idiots?
jesus spoke in parables to get the me ...[text shortened]... d book that is at best outdated and at worst filled with horrible horribleness
Originally posted by ZahlanziYou are ignorant of the fact that the early Hebrew language did not have many words. So the word that is generally translated as fish can also be translated as any sea creature that propels itself by vibrating the tail.
"Talking about "What is important" can be an excuse for devaluating portions that one simply finds bothering. "
so we stupidly ignore the facts and consider everything important, even those blatantly contradicting science. yes, that's a very intelligent thing to do. do you wonder why people think fundies are idiots?
jesus spoke in parables to get the me ...[text shortened]... d book that is at best outdated and at worst filled with horrible horribleness
It is genearally accepted that this was what we call a whale today, because the Greek has more than one word for fish and in the Greek translation of the book of Jonah, it uses the Greek word that is translated as whale and not one of the others for fish or fish prepared to be eaten that are salted and dried.
Also in Matthew 12, Jesus uses that Greek word that is translated as whale as I quote below:
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(Matthew 12:40 KJV)
Your other statements are just the rantings of someone who has a lack of knowledge and understanding and chooses not to believe in the truth of the Holy Bible.
The Holy Bible says all things are possible WITH God. However, Evil-lution is contrary to the clear word of scripture and therefore is something that must happen WITHOUT God. This is why we declare Evil-lution impossible.
Your view is based on the assumptions that you believe to be true and your desire that they are true. The idea the Evil-lution is proven and verified is nothing but hogwash.
The Instructor
Originally posted by RJHindsSince most intelligent people know that no human could survive inside either a whale or any fishes belly for three days we can conclude that this entire statement is just another fairy tale. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(Matthew 12:40 KJV)
The Instructor[/b]
Originally posted by caissad4Most intelligent people DO NOT KNOW if a human could survive in a whale's belly for 3 days and 3 nights. They might BELIEVE, but they don't know that this is a fairy tale.
Since most intelligent people know that no human could survive inside either a whale or any fishes belly for three days we can conclude that this entire statement is just another fairy tale. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
The Instructor
Originally posted by caissad4I know that we all have feelings, but having feelings is not knowledge. We all have our worldview that shape our feelings and beliefs. We all wish to know the truth and we use the tools available to seek after the knowledge of the truth.
I feel certain that they know it is a fairy tale. Maybe you don't know. 🙄🙄
Some truth can be found through reason, logic, and the scientific method. I believe that Atheists consider this the only way to discover truth. However, there are others that believe that we can also obtain knowledge through philosophy and special revelation that comes through our religious faith.
You seem to think you can gain truth through feelings and possibly intuiton. But your feelings and intuition can be either right or wrong.
I think we may need to consider all these in our search for the knowledge of truth. Perhaps what, at first, appears as only a fairy tale has more to tell us than we realize.
The Instructor
Originally posted by RJHindsThe truth is that if you were inside the stomach of a whale you would suffocate. That is definitely not "intuition". Unless you have been watching too many cartoons lately, lol. 🙄🙄
I know that we all have feelings, but having feelings is not knowledge. We all have our worldview that shape our feelings and beliefs. We all wish to know the truth and we use the tools available to seek after the knowledge of the truth.
You seem to think you can gain truth through feelings and possibly intuiton. But your feelings and intuition can be ei ...[text shortened]... hat, at first, appears as only a fairy tale has more to tell us than we realize.
The Instructor
Originally posted by caissad4You are not considering the "God" factor. The Holy Bible says anything is possible WITH God. It is clear from the story that God had something to do with Jonah being swallowed and remaining in the belly of the whale for 3 days and 3 nights, so that later Jesus could use this as a sign to prophecy His resurrection from the grave upon spending 3 days and nights in the tomb.
The truth is that if you were inside the stomach of a whale you would suffocate. That is definitely not "intuition". Unless you have been watching too many cartoons lately, lol. 🙄🙄
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!
The Instructor
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsSo, just one time in the entire history of mankind, a dude named Jonah, gets swallowed by a whale. SURE, it could happen....
You are not considering the "God" factor. The Holy Bible says anything is possible WITH God. It is clear from the story that God had something to do with Jonah being swallowed and remaining in the belly of the whale for 3 days and 3 nights, so that later Jesus could use this as a sign to prophecy His resurrection from the grave upon spending 3 days and nig ...[text shortened]... tomb.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!
The Instructor
And then survives for what, 3 days? Just that one time, I guess your god just wanted to experiment?
With a warning sign, 'Don't try this at home'?
"The INSTRUCTOR"? Wow, another oxymoron. RJHinds, the instructor.
What a joke.
Originally posted by sonhouseyet you keep paying attention to him. that is the bigger joke.
So, just one time in the entire history of mankind, a dude named Jonah, gets swallowed by a whale. SURE, it could happen....
And then survives for what, 3 days? Just that one time, I guess your god just wanted to experiment?
With a warning sign, 'Don't try this at home'?
"The INSTRUCTOR"? Wow, another oxymoron. RJHinds, the instructor.
What a joke.