Absurd REALLY stupid stories in the bible.

And then survives for what, 3 days? Just that one time, I guess your god just wanted to experiment?

Whew !!! Dark as the pitch blackness of night six miles beneath the ocean. You really see NOTHING.

In your hands the bible is just a collection of miscellaneous oddities completely unrelated to each other.

Now here's a little ditty about a man swallowed by a whale (actually an especially appointed fish) and lives for three days. Unrelated to anything else it is.

Nevermind that he actually could have DIED there in the animal. Nevermind that Jesus Christ said something greater than Jonah was there with Him, as if Jonah was a preview of the death and resurrection after three days of the Son of God.

You see nothing. And you're mighty proud of it too.

The book of Jonah for one, is a while book dedicated to showing that God is reluctant to have to judge anyone. He takes no delight to have to condemn sinners but far prefers to have mercy and forgiveness on them.

Furthermore, we see not only a preview of the death and resurrection of Christ in Jonah's three day stay in the fish, but we see a God who misses no fair and just situation with sinners.

That last line of Jonah has God telling the disappointed prophet -

"And I, should I not have pity on Nineveh, the great city, in which are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot discern between their right hand and their left, and many cattle." (Jonah 4:11)

Here is the paradox -

1.) God will unquestionably judge mankind.

2.) God will not fail to know the exact situation of everyone, even down to the count of people who for this or that reason are less culpable for guilt.

God is fully capable to be both totally thorough and totally just.


"Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered Him, saying, Teacher, we want to see a sign from You. But He answered and said to them, An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet.

For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights." (Matt. 12:28-40)

Originally posted by sonship

And then survives for what, 3 days? Just that one time, I guess your god just wanted to experiment?

Whew !!! Dark as the pitch blackness of night six miles beneath the ocean. You really see NOTHING.

In your hands the bible is just a collection of miscellaneous oddities completely unrelated to each other.

Now here's a little ...[text shortened]... n of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights." (Matt. 12:28-40) [/b]

The trouble in these debates is that the skeptic gets roped in with the crazy people who want to believe that Jonah was literally inside a whale for 3 days. It is they who are missing the point, not the skeptics.

The trouble in these debates is that the skeptic gets roped in with the crazy people who want to believe that Jonah was literally inside a whale for 3 days. It is they who are missing the point, not the skeptics.

I like to start from the point of "What did it actually SAY?"

"And Jehovah prepared a great fish to swallow Jonah up, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish for three days and three nights."

Let me start here. God PREPARED a "great fish". Why not a particularly large fish specifically prepared and appointed to this unusual event ?

That should not be too difficult for the God who brought time, space, matter into existence out of nothing but His own eternal mind and will power.

How do I know that maybe Jonah didn't die in there ? Maybe he died. Not sure. It says he said - "From the belly of Sheol I cried out for help; You heard my voice."

now Sheol is the place of departed souls, a place of the dead. I have never been dead. Neither have you.

Do we know for certain that once DEAD we might not CRY OUT to God ? Now as a good atheist or agnostic you may say "Damn, I hope not." But you don't know.

I don't know either what awaits me at the moment of death. I do have One who seems to be an authority on the subject - one Jesus Christ. He said "I am the resurrection and the life." He spoke and demonstrated some strong authority in the area of death and resurrection.

I'm going to place my bets on what Jesus said. You do as you wish.

Then again, maybe Jonah didn't die but lived in that fish for three days and three nights. Too hard for God to arrange ? I don't think this is too hard for God to arrange. That it was extraordinary and a not oft repeated event is precisely why it is encompassed in one book of the Bible.

The miraculous extraordinary nature of the event is part of the point. God on occasion did something impossible to our sense, for the express purpose of making a point about Him being God.

Now if I put aside the story of Jonah in unbelief the major tenets of my faith are expressed in many more ways elsewhere than in just this one account. Major themes in God's communication to man are expressed in many more ways. Ample testimony is found elsewhere that God can prevail and preserve a man in extreme calamity and even from death itself.

Originally posted by sonship

The trouble in these debates is that the skeptic gets roped in with the crazy people who want to believe that Jonah was literally inside a whale for 3 days. It is they who are missing the point, not the skeptics.

I like to start from the point of "What did it actually SAY?"

[b]"And Jehovah prepared a great fish to swallow Jonah up, ...[text shortened]... God can prevail and preserve a man in extreme calamity and even death itself.

You should have chosen "SermonBot" as your new handle. 😛

Originally posted by SwissGambit
You should have chosen "SermonBot" as your new handle. 😛

Ah yes, the definition of "sermon" -" Whatever you don't want to hear."

Originally posted by SwissGambit
You should have chosen "SermonBot" as your new handle. 😛

Why not change yours to "QuickyTrollChat".

Originally posted by sonship
Why not change yours to "QuickyTrollChat".

Because that is not apt. A troll is generally insincere and only concerned with the reaction they get. Whereas I really do think you tend to avoid real, interactive conversation and instead launch into sermons and hammer away at a bunch of imaginary "points" that the other person (me, in this case) hasn't even made.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Because that is not apt. A troll is generally insincere and only concerned with the reaction they get. Whereas I really do think you tend to avoid real, interactive conversation and instead launch into sermons and hammer away at a bunch of imaginary "points" that the other person (me, in this case) hasn't even made.

Yes. I do add stuff that was not asked about. That is true and that is a weakness I may have.

But at the same time people are skillful at putting questions and points out there designed so that the responder is disadvantaged to do nothing more than go along with the criticism.

I don't count those kinds of posts as that sincerely opened to discussion. They're just skeptical talking points and the other is only to shut up and read it.

Case in point - sonhouse

And then survives for what, 3 days? Just that one time, I guess your god just wanted to experiment?

interactive conversation and instead launch into sermons and hammer away at a bunch of imaginary "points"

Now that is interesting because I regard some of the things you write to be just as much "imaginary points" or really non-issues.

Want me to let you know next time I see one from you ?

Originally posted by sonship
Yes. I do add stuff that was not asked about. That is true and that is a weakness I may have.

But at the same time people are skillful at putting questions and points out there designed so that the responder is disadvantaged to do nothing more than go along with the criticism.

I don't count those kinds of posts as that sincerely opened to discussion. They're just skeptical talking points and the other is only to shut up and read it.

If you don't think the premise of the question [is reasonable] then you don't have to accept it.

But you should explain WHY you don't accept the premise of the question.

Theists do exactly the same thing, by for example asking questions that appear
to box the atheist into a corner as long as you don't realise that the question
makes assumptions the atheist doesn't accept...
Like presuming that god exists and/or is the source of morality ect. ect.


Trying to frame questions in such a way as to 'disadvantage' your opponent is
a common and near universal debating strategy.
Sometimes it can even be unintentional.

Particularly when you don't realise the assumptions you are making when framing
the question because this is the first time you have encountered someone who doesn't
share those assumptions.

Originally posted by sonship
Yes. I do add stuff that was not asked about. That is true and that is a weakness I may have.

But at the same time people are skillful at putting questions and points out there designed so that the responder is disadvantaged to do nothing more than go along with the criticism.

I don't count those kinds of posts as that sincerely opened to discussio ...[text shortened]... ves for what, 3 days? Just that one time, I guess your god just wanted to experiment? [/quote]

Surely that one is easy to answer. Just say, "it doesn't matter if Jonah was actually in a whale's belly for 3 days. The story is a prophetic metaphor for the death and resurrection of Jesus" or some such.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Surely that one is easy to answer. Just say, "it doesn't matter if Jonah was actually in a whale's belly for 3 days. The story is a prophetic metaphor for the death and resurrection of Jesus" or some such.

But it is only a short step from there to say "Well it doesn't matter if Jesus rose from the dead. It is a metaphor for something else.

Its a slippery slope. So the Christian like me is cautious or be robbed of her prize.

Originally posted by sonship

interactive conversation and instead launch into sermons and hammer away at a bunch of imaginary "points"

Now that is interesting because I regard some of the things you write to be just as much "imaginary points" or really non-issues.

Want me to let you know next time I see one from you ?

Absolutely! That's what makes forums interesting. Though I think some of the ones you'd bring up are jokes...

...but if they're not, I will do my best to explain why I think they are relevant points.

Originally posted by sonship

Oops...you put your post in the 'quoted post' box so it got truncated.

Originally posted by sonship
But it is only a short step from there to say "Well it doesn't matter if Jesus rose from the dead. It is a metaphor for something else.

Its a slippery slope. So the Christian like me is cautious or be robbed of her prize.

Well then you are between a rock and a hard place.

If you can't allow anything in the bible to be allegory then you are stuck claiming
it's all literally true in which case you have to explain why your 'literally true' bible
breaks the known laws of physics and makes claims that are contradictory and untrue.
And you also have to deal with the moral implications of the events of the bible actually
happening as written.

If you can allow for at least some of the bible to be allegory then you have to answer the
question of how you tell which bits are allegory and which bits are literally true.