22 Jul 06
Originally posted by LinkHyruleSo what beliefs differ from mainstream Christianity? How did Joe Smith perfect the corruption that entagled all believers up until that time?
The Book of Mormon is not the Bible, nor an addition to the Bible. It is another witness of Jesus Christ and a companion to the Bible, not adding to it or taking it's place. I believe the Bible, yes.
22 Jul 06
Originally posted by David CI believe we are talking about the lost manuscript. Joseph Smith translated over a hundred pages of the beginning of the Book of Mormon. His scribe, (he had one because he could barely write) Martin Harris, requested to show the manuscript to his wife. Joseph asked the Lord twice, and both times he said no. Joseph asked the Lord one final time, and the Lord answered yes, because he allows men their agency. The Lord instructed that Martin only show the manuscript to his wife and a few close relatives and made him make an oath that he would do so. Martin did so. A while later, Martin returned to Joseph's home without the manuscript. Martin had broken his oath. The knowledge that the manuscript was at Martin's house made his so called "friends" who he had shown it to steal it. They then changed it and waited for Joseph to retranslate it so they could say that the Book of Mormon was just a reprint of the work they had stolen, and therefore, false. Instead the Lord told Joseph not to retranslate it, because the principles taught in it were to be found in the rest of the book. It was not retranslated, so that plan to sabotage the Book of Mormon failed.
Are you suggesting that since an earlier version of the work exists with many undeniable similarities, it somehow dictates the second borrowed from the first? hmmmmm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I've heard that argument somewhere else.
22 Jul 06
Originally posted by whodeyRead Matt. 13:11-15 If you think the Bible was written simply, then I'm the king of the U.S. The people did not want the simple things, they were bored with them, so the Lord gave them mysteries and took away the simple things. The Book of Mormon is written a lot easier to understand and deals with the simple things.
So what beliefs differ from mainstream Christianity? How did Joe Smith perfect the corruption that entagled all believers up until that time?
23 Jul 06
2 edits
Originally posted by LinkHyruleWell, I will just have to agree to disagree with you in terms of your interpretation of Matthew 13. Christ was speaking about all men and not just those during his time. You can't convince me that the people of Joe Smith's day were any different than those during the time of Christ. What changed people from the time of Christ to that of Joe Smith in order for God to decide to "simplify" his message?
Read Matt. 13:11-15 If you think the Bible was written simply, then I'm the king of the U.S. The people did not want the simple things, they were bored with them, so the Lord gave them mysteries and took away the simple things. The Book of Mormon is written a lot easier to understand and deals with the simple things.
Also if you will indulge me, I have been doing some studying on Mormonism and I have a few questions to ask you. Is it true that Mormon theology teaches that through the atonement of Christ and in addition to performing good deeds and "holy" living, men can one day become gods themselves? What became of the message of salvation through grace least any man boast? Then these men who achieve god status can then take their goddess wives and populate other planets in the after life? Does it not also teach that Christ earned his god like status in such a way as a good Morman can and that Mormons can one day become an equal to Christ?
This theology even gets a little crazier from my perspective. Does it not teach that Adam and Eve needed to sin in order that their earthly bodies would die so that they could recieve immortal tabernacles for their spirits? What was wrong with the tabernacles they were given to begin with? Were they not immortal before they fell? Why would God not give them the bodies they needed first in order to avoid the fall? This immortal tabernacle will then be given to them after being redeemed through the sacrifice of Christ after they die. Therefore they disobeyed God in order to do his will? Adams fall is thereby classified as a fall upward and not downward, no? If all of this is so then why did Christ not have to sin in order to recieve this immortal tabernacle like the average Joe Smith?
If I present a Straw man in any of my interpretations please feel free to correct me.
23 Jul 06
Originally posted by LinkHyruleThis is according to Joseph Smith correct?
One night, while Joseph Smith was praying, an angel appeared in his room. He told him there was a record deposited, written on gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of the American continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to ...[text shortened]... anslation of the book, Joseph gave the plates back to Moroni, and Moroni has them to this day.
23 Jul 06
Signs and wonders were used during biblical times to authenticate God’s message, but today Scripture is the only test as to the validity of a man’s message.
In the OT they took prophecy seriously. If you said God would do something and it didn’t come to pass they would stone you to death.
In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, God commands Israel not to be gullible and follow anyone claiming to foretell the future by dreams or a prophet who performs signs or wonders. They were warned not to follow a "prophet" who says something will happen in the future, but it didn’t.
In Matthew 7:15-23, Jesus commanded his followers to watch out for false prophets.
The written Word has authority over so-called spiritual manifestations. John commands us, "test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).
People following these modern-day false prophets are allowing others to tell them what is or is not authentic. We are told to evaluate what a “prophet” says based on Scripture and not depend on a few individuals who claim to have some mysterious "anointing" that is available only to a select few.
23 Jul 06
1 edit
Originally posted by telerionI would have to agree with you teleron, or at least from my run-ins with Mormons verses those who call themselves Christians. This is much to our shame. However, I often question people who call themselves Christians and who act worse than most nonbelievers I know. I question not only their conversion but also their understanding of the teachings of the man they profess to be following. If you are not following the example of Christ, you do not deserve to be named after him.
One positive thing I have to say about LDS. In my experience, they have been some of the nicest people I've ever met. As a group, the LDS that I've met have been considerably more amiacable than other xians.
BTW I in no way mean to dump on those who follow after LDS. I am merely focusing on my concerns over a theology that I view as dangerous and heretical to the teachings of the Bible. I in no way mean to attack LDS'ers on a personal level.
24 Jul 06
Originally posted by Hand of HecateStrange as it is, some people have been in a burning building, and all their body was burnt, at least the parts that weren't covered by the garments, but no part of their body was burned that was covered by their garments.
Can it protect you from bullets and oter physical form as I have been told??
24 Jul 06
Originally posted by whodeyWell, think about it. The people of 34 A.D. (forgive me if that's an incorrect date), were very rebellious. They were waiting for their Savior to come to defeat the Romans. They knew that Jesus was the true king of the Jews, (Jews keep records of family history, therefore they would have known that Jesus was a descendent of David) and yet, because of the message which Jesus sent to them, they crucified him. They willingly crucified the Savior they knew was their king because his teachings were so different from what they had been taught all their lives. The people of the 1830's would not have crucified their Savior if they knew it was him.
Well, I will just have to agree to disagree with you in terms of your interpretation of Matthew 13. Christ was speaking about all men and not just those during his time. You can't convince me that the people of Joe Smith's day were any different than those during the time of Christ. What changed people from the time of Christ to that of Joe Smith in order ...[text shortened]...
If I present a Straw man in any of my interpretations please feel free to correct me.
Yes, we can become Gods ourselves someday, or what purpose would their be to coming to Earth? We might as well have never been born if we wouldn't grow from our experiences on Earth. As sons and daughters of our Heavenly Parents, ought we not grow up to be like them? "Holy" living, as you call it, is just sticking to principles. The commandments, of course, but also other things. Not drinking coffee, tea, taking drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes was a revelation to keep our bodies healthy when the world didn't know those things were bad for you. Also, not watching bad things or listening to bad music or words helps us to keep the Holy Ghost close to us. I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping ourselves clean from doing wrong things.
We do have salvation through grace, but not the way you're thinking. We are saved through the grace of the Lord forgiving our sins if we are willing to repent. By repent I mean to really feel sorry for sinning and to take steps so you won't make the same mistake again, and last of all, do all you can to not repeat that sin. Boasting is just another sin, so if you boast you definately are not perfect.
Eternal marriage is where a family can live together for all eternity in happiness. As a family they can still have children, as it is a God-given blessing to have children, or we would never have been born. I know there are a lot of things I don't know about after I am done with this life, but I do know that the Lord won't leave me in the dark about what will occur there.
I don't believe anybody can become an equal to Christ.
24 Jul 06
Originally posted by whodeyAdam and Eve could not have children in the garden of Eden because it was a place where they only had the knowledge the Lord had given them. They did did not know how to multiply because they knew they were naked, and yet they did not multiply. Not ashamed means that they did not know that what they were showing were showing private parts to each other. The tabernacles were not growing, but in a state of limbo, as you might say. Neither could their bodies be resurrected in that form, because resurrection is a process of growing. They were immortal, but they were not perfect, or they would not have eaten from the tree of good and evil. They needed to fall to have offspring and multiply the Earth or the Earth would not have had a purpose. From their offspring, the Savior was born to rise above the fall and be resurrected. He did not give them resurrected bodies because they could not have learned anything from the creation of the Earth, therefore it would not have been built. Yet it was.
Well, I will just have to agree to disagree with you in terms of your interpretation of Matthew 13. Christ was speaking about all men and not just those during his time. You can't convince me that the people of Joe Smith's day were any different than those during the time of Christ. What changed people from the time of Christ to that of Joe Smith in order ...[text shortened]...
If I present a Straw man in any of my interpretations please feel free to correct me.
Do you not believe God is all knowing? Do you not believe he knew they would disobey him? Gen 2:17 states if they ate the fruit they would surely die. They ate of it and they died. They also learned from their mistake. The Lord doesn't mind if we make mistakes, as long as we repent, or we would all go to hell.
To rise above the fall, Christ had to not sin, or he would have been just like Adam and Eve, and therefore, the Earth would have had no purpose, because the Lord would not send all of his children to a world so they could never return to him again. The Savior set the example for all of us to follow, just as he set the example for us to be baptised. If I have in any way been sarcastic or left out any of your question, please inform me, and I am deeply sorry.