Archangel Michael

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
a simple no i dont have a scriptural reference that the angel of the abyss is Satan
would have sufficed. I am not in the business of trying to convince anyone, perhaps I
have not stated, that i dont care what you people think, enough times, who can say.

NO SCRIPTURAL REFERENCE THAT THE ANGEL OF TH ABYSS IS SATAN, thankyou! are
you people superstitious or what?

Gosh you researched that quickly having never given it moments thought until now.

Of course I forgot, there are hundreds of scriptures stating that Jesus is Abaddon, the king of the pit.

As I said we all choose what we want to believe robbie - you are welcome to your belief that Jesus your saviour is Abaddon the destroyer and king of the pit, even though you seem to have only come to that conclusion tonight.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You should know that what you quoted was where Jesus was speaking
as a man. What I am referring to is later at John 20:29.

And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed.
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

man or not, he still has a God, now RJH, where does Jesus say it, you cannot produce it
can you, because its not in the Bible is it. Divesgeester made it up.

Originally posted by divegeester
Of course it's not proof of anything, the whole publication is a tissue of error. When a organisation claims to hold the whole truth you would expect them to be just a little consistent .

Edit: Perhaps you should discus it with Galveston as he originally posted it - for some reason.

That's not the point. The point is you presented the text as proof that Robbie had thought about the Abaddon issue, and your implicit accusation was that he was avoiding the question and being disingenuous. Then you go on to wonder why Robbie doesn't jump to the defense of the WT quote. It's as though you think that he has both memorized every piece of WT literature and that he's employed as an apologist for JW doctrine. Give me a break. I'm a neo-Aristotelean virtue-ethicist. Does that mean that I have both thought seriously about and agree with every Aristotelean claim about virtue? No and no.

Originally posted by divegeester
Gosh you researched that quickly having never given it moments thought until now.

Of course I forgot, there are hundreds of scriptures stating that Jesus is Abaddon, the king of the pit.

As I said we all choose what we want to believe robbie - you are welcome to your belief that Jesus your saviour is Abaddon the destroyer and king of the pit, even though you seem to have only come to that conclusion tonight.

NO SCRIPTURAL REFERENCE DIVEESGEESTER, the question then we are entitled to ask
is, if you did not get the idea that the angel of the abyss is Satan the Devil as you
have erroneously claimed from scripture, where did you get it from? hearsay,
superstition? cornflakes packet? unlucky dip?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
hit the road Jack and dont you come back no more, another great song i believe.

So Robbie .. any other skeletons lurking in the Watchtower closet?
Confession is good for the soul.

Originally posted by bbarr
That's not the point. The point is you presented the text as proof that Robbie had thought about the Abaddon issue, and your implicit accusation was that he was avoiding the question and being disingenuous. Then you go on to wonder why Robbie doesn't jump to the defense of the WT quote. It's as though you think that he has both memorized every piece of WT l ...[text shortened]... h thought seriously about and agree with every Aristotelean claim about virtue? No and no.

Are you reading the rest of his posts in this thread?

He has clearly researched it. Why don't you ask Galveston and robbie carrobie to give you a straight answer to this question: "before tonight were they aware of the JW teaching that Jesus is Abaddon?"

Originally posted by Rajk999
So Robbie .. any other skeletons lurking in the Watchtower closet?
Confession is good for the soul.

please see bbar text above. As i stated, what is there , so far you people have
produced nothing to the contrary, have you.

Originally posted by divegeester
Are you reading the rest of his posts in this thread?

He has clearly researched it. Why don't you ask Galveston and robbie carrobie to give you a straight answer to this question: "before tonight were they aware of the JW teaching that Jesus is Abaddon?"

how have i clearly researched it divesgeester? because you cannot find any scriptural
references that means that i have clearly researched it, how is that? man, this goes from hysterical to tragic.

Originally posted by bbarr
That's not the point. The point is you presented the text as proof that Robbie had thought about the Abaddon issue, and your implicit accusation was that he was avoiding the question and being disingenuous. Then you go on to wonder why Robbie doesn't jump to the defense of the WT quote. It's as though you think that he has both memorized every piece of WT l ...[text shortened]... h thought seriously about and agree with every Aristotelean claim about virtue? No and no.

Can I point out that the WT Org has described itself as the Mother of the JWs the same way that God is the father of the JWs. That organisation controls what the JWs learn and believe. I would say that a doctrine/belief published by the WT Org has to be digested, believed and adhered to in far less than 20 years.

Did you see how fast Robbie accepted the teaching? Dive could have made it up or falsified it. Robbie did not question the concept presented in the quote from the WT.

Judging from Robbie's overall reaction he knew about the doctrine in my opinion.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
please see bbar text above. As i stated, what is there , so far you people have
produced nothing to the contrary, have you.

I think there is a lot that has been been made clear in this thread.

Originally posted by divegeester
Are you reading the rest of his posts in this thread?

He has clearly researched it. Why don't you ask Galveston and robbie carrobie to give you a straight answer to this question: "before tonight were they aware of the JW teaching that Jesus is Abaddon?"

Galveston obviously has researched it, given his response to my post about it, but I don't see any reason not to take Robbie at his word. I mean, how are we supposed to debate in good faith here if we don't employ some minimal principle of charity with regard to our interlocutors? I'm an atheist; I don't care at all whether Jesus is Abaddon or Michael (on the one hand) or God and the Holy Spirit (on the other). But I am interested in how smart folks interpret complex texts, and in Hebrew and Greek, and in exegesis generally. So, if you read back in this thread a few pages, you'll see that Robbie and I had a perfectly cordial discussion of the notion of worship, as it appears in scripture. He was open and frank. And all that was required was being nice and sincere! It's like magic!

Originally posted by Rajk999
Can I point out that the WT Org has described itself as the Mother of the JWs the same way that God is the father of the JWs. That organisation controls what the JWs learn and believe. I would say that a doctrine/belief published by the WT Org has to be digested, believed and adhered to in far less than 20 years.

Did you see how fast Robbie accepted the t ...[text shortened]... m the WT.

Judging from Robbie's overall reaction he knew about the doctrine in my opinion.

in your opinion, well that says it all.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
please see bbar text above. As i stated, what is there , so far you people have
produced nothing to the contrary, have you.

So it must be true then .. Jesus Christ is also Abaddon. If you say so ... 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
how have i clearly researched it divesgeester? because you cannot find any scriptural
references that means that i have clearly researched it, how is that? man, this goes from hysterical to tragic.

I've just quoted one above robbie. The fact there is not a scripture stating that "Abaddon is not Satan" is irrelevant - I'm not claiming he is Satan, I claiming he is a demon who is king of the pit.

There is adequate external references and general academic agreement on this (e.g. the wiki post) - but you take the opposing view (despite you having never given it a moments thought - was that lie by the way?).

These in no evidence to say Jesus is Abaddon. And you you won't have any because you have never given it a moments thought.

Originally posted by divegeester
I think there is a lot that has been been made clear in this thread.

yes, there is, you make stuff up and when pressed for evidence cannot produce the
readies and become hysterical, summydid likes to burn bridges and well, cya fast
friend, Raj thinks he knows everything and knows practically nothing and bbar is a
genuinely excellent fellow who just wants to find out what we profess and why.


have a good evening i am going to sleep and dream about the angel of the abyss
abbadon rising up and putting you into the abyss for a thousand years, with Satan the
Devil, but wait, wouldn't that mean that hes, umm, incarcerating himself? mmm, not
very secure me thinks. But ill let you think about that.