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    24 Oct '11 17:163 edits
    First i must apologise to Whodey who raised this question for it was asked in sincerity
    (i think) and was met with a rather abrupt answer not becoming a servant of the
    most high, therefore one shall endeavour to treat this with as much reasonableness
    as is possible under the circumstances.

    (Jude 9) But when Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was
    disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgement against him in
    abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.”

    (1 Thessalonians 4:16) because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a
    commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who
    are dead in union with Christ will rise first.

    Is Jesus Christ the same person as Michael the archangel?

    The name of this Michael appears only five times in the Bible. The glorious spirit
    person who bears the name is referred to as “one of the chief princes,” “the great
    prince who has charge of your [Daniel’s] people,” and as “the archangel.” (Dan.
    10:13; 12:1; Jude 9, RS) Michael means “Who Is Like God?”

    At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to
    begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 says that the archangel is
    Michael. Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus’ commanding call to that of someone
    lesser in authority? Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.
    (Interestingly, the expression “archangel” is never found in the plural in the
    Scriptures, thus implying that there is only one.)

    Revelation 12:7-12 says that Michael and his angels would war against Satan and
    hurl him and his wicked angels out of heaven in connection with the conferring of
    kingly authority on Christ. Jesus is later depicted as leading the armies of heaven in
    war against the nations of the world. (Rev. 19:11-16) Is it not reasonable that Jesus
    would also be the one to take action against the one he described as “ruler of this
    world,” Satan the Devil? (John 12:31) Daniel 12:1 (RS) associates the ‘standing up
    of Michael’ to act with authority with “a time of trouble, such as never has been
    since there was a nation till that time.” That would certainly fit the experience of the
    nations when Christ as heavenly executioner takes action against them. So the
    evidence indicates that the Son of God was known as Michael before he came to
    earth and is known also by that name since his return to heaven where he resides
    as the glorified spirit Son of God.
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    24 Oct '11 17:251 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    First i must apologise to Whodey who raised this question for it was asked in sincerity
    (i think) and was met with a rather abrupt answer not becoming a servant of the
    most high, therefore one shall endeavour to treat this with as much reasonableness
    as is possible under the circumstances.

    (Jude 9) But when Michael the archangel had a differe ...[text shortened]... o by that name since his return to heaven where he resides
    as the glorified spirit Son of God.
    Jude 9 does not mention "Jehovah". It is the Lord, which is Jesus.

    P.S. Jude 1:9
    But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about
    the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but
    said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
  3. Account suspended
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    24 Oct '11 17:371 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Jude 9 does not mention "Jehovah". It is the Lord, which is Jesus.

    P.S. Jude 1:9
    But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about
    the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but
    said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
    start your own thread entitled 'the restoration of the divine name', this is about Michael
    the archangel.
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    24 Oct '11 17:481 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    First i must apologise to Whodey who raised this question for it was asked in sincerity
    (i think) and was met with a rather abrupt answer not becoming a servant of the
    most high, therefore one shall endeavour to treat this with as much reasonableness
    as is possible under the circumstances.

    (Jude 9) But when Michael the archangel had a differe ...[text shortened]... o by that name since his return to heaven where he resides
    as the glorified spirit Son of God.
    Very Good ... 2 vague verses + 2 Assumptions = FACTUAL CONCLUSION

    JWs and Trinitarians have much in common.

    When will people just accept the teaching of Christ and Paul and just take it how it reads? The answer? Pure Human Arrogance .. that little voice that tells you that you need to show people that you know more than they do. Even if your analysis and conclusions are pure BS.
  5. Standard memberRJHinds
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    24 Oct '11 18:142 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    start your own thread entitled 'the restoration of the divine name', this is about Michael
    the archangel.
    Again, the devil *took Him to a very high mountain and *showed Him all the kingdoms
    of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You,
    if You fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus *said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’” Then the devil
    left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

    (Matthew 4:8-11 NASB)

    And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once.

    (Matthew 17:18 NASB)

    For it is written,

    “AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
    AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD.”

    (Romans 14:11 NASB)

    For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is
    above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess
    that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    (Phillipians 2:9-11 NASB)

    ...that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart
    that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person
    believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting
    in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same
    Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “WHOEVER
    WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

    (Romans 10:9-13 NASB)
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    24 Oct '11 18:282 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Very Good ... 2 vague verses + 2 Assumptions = FACTUAL CONCLUSION

    JWs and Trinitarians have much in common.

    When will people just accept the teaching of Christ and Paul and just take it how it reads? The answer? Pure Human Arrogance .. that little voice that tells you that you need to show people that you know more than they do. Even if your analysis and conclusions are pure BS.
    As you have proffered no alternative can i assume that you dont know who the
    archangel is? as far as i can discern we have simply utilised the scriptures to form
    some concrete conclusions, which of those conclusions is erroneous and on what
    basis? You say that its BS but as per usual you FAIL to say why.
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    24 Oct '11 18:31
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Again, the devil *took Him to a very high mountain and *showed Him all the kingdoms
    of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You,
    if You fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus *said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’” Then the devil
    left Him; and behold, ...[text shortened]... n Him; for “WHOEVER
    WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

    (Romans 10:9-13 NASB)
    what has this got to do with Michael the archangel? As far as i can discern, you have
    made two attempts at this post, with no relevance to the subject at hand in either of
    them. If you want to start your own threads on different subjects please do so, but this
    is about Michael the archangel.
  8. Donationbbarr
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    24 Oct '11 18:32
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    First i must apologise to Whodey who raised this question for it was asked in sincerity
    (i think) and was met with a rather abrupt answer not becoming a servant of the
    most high, therefore one shall endeavour to treat this with as much reasonableness
    as is possible under the circumstances.

    (Jude 9) But when Michael the archangel had a differe ...[text shortened]... o by that name since his return to heaven where he resides
    as the glorified spirit Son of God.
    This is an interesting claim. What do you make of the first chapter of Hebrews?
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    24 Oct '11 18:37
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    As you have proffered no alternative can i assume that you dont know who the
    archangel is? as far as i can discern e have simply utilised the scriptures to form
    some concrete conclusions, which o those conclusions is erroneous and on what
    basis? You say that its BS but as per usual you FAIL to say why.
    Michael is the Archangel .
    Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    What is the issue ?
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    24 Oct '11 18:381 edit
    Originally posted by bbarr
    This is an interesting claim. What do you make of the first chapter of Hebrews?
    Yes Conrau brought the matter up once where he essentially attempted the argument that
    which one of the angels has God likened to his son, or words to that effect, however, it
    seems to me that we are not talking of any common angel, but a unique and singular
    entity, foremost above all angels. Could this be a description of the Christ? we have
    no objection to this idea because to us Christ is an angel (from angelos, a sent one), a
    created entity (Col 1:15) and a son of God (as were the other angelic creatures).
  11. Account suspended
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    24 Oct '11 18:40
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Michael is the Archangel .
    Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    What is the issue ?
    There is no issue, as far as i can discern, we have made a connection between Christ
    and the Archangael Michael as one and the same. Why should there be any issues?
  12. England
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    24 Oct '11 18:46
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    As you have proffered no alternative can i assume that you dont know who the archangel is?
    there are 7 archangels who minister to god, as far as we know for sure jesus was not one of them, jesus never said he was and never mentions them. and the quote is the lord not as some call him by a name. the 4 letters which is given as gods name is made to sound easy to say [ humans use this], but a angel high or low would not.
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    24 Oct '11 18:48
    Originally posted by stoker
    there are 7 archangels who minister to god, as far as we know for sure jesus was not one of them, jesus never said he was and never mentions them. and the quote is the lord not as some call him by a name. the 4 letters which is given as gods name is made to sound easy to say [ humans use this], but a angel high or low would not.
    evidence please.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    24 Oct '11 18:53
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    what has this got to do with Michael the archangel? As far as i can discern, you have
    made two attempts at this post, with no relevance to the subject at hand in either of
    them. If you want to start your own threads on different subjects please do so, but this
    is about Michael the archangel.
    I was first correcting the fact that you stuck "Jehovah" in the New Testament
    when the word is "Lord" and that refers to Christ. He is Lord of Lords, and
    King of Kings. It will be seen later how this has a bearing on who Michael
    the Archangel is or is not.
  15. England
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    24 Oct '11 18:56
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    evidence please.
    of what??
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