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Originally posted by bbarr
You forgot one, "Abaddon" (Rev 9:11), but he's a bad guy.
You forgot one, "Abaddon" (Rev 9:11), but he's a bad guy.
Well strictly speaking "angel" is just a messenger. So Jesus Christ is a "Messenger" of of God in that sense. I firmly believe that "The Angel of Jehovah" in the Old Testament is the Son of God before His incarnation.
Now we come to "the messenger of the abyss" in Revelation 9:11.
"They have a king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon; and in Greek he has the name Apollyon" (Rev. 9:11)
This king over the demonic locusts, this "angel of the abyss" is a MAN. This is the Antichrist.
However, it is a little more involved. The physical body of a great world leader will be killed. Then he will be rescusitated. He will come back to life by a Satanic miracle. When he does the spirit of Ceasar Nero will come up out of the realm of death, out of this abyss, and it will inhabit the body of this slain and resurrected Antichrist.
This extraordinary person, the Antichrist, will be Nero's spirit and soul come up from the abyss and put into the body of the slain and resucitated Antichrist.
This evil man is called Abaddon in Hebrew and Apollyon in Greek. That is a great Destroyer.
Many skeptical and unbelieving people will be swepts away in persuasion at the death and resurrection of this man. He will make Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins sound like sunday school kids.
The tide of deception will be so strong that millions will not be able to resist the lie.
This is a man and not an angelic creature.
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Originally posted by jaywillWow, OK. What scriptural references do you use to justify this interpretation? I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm really curious. Because here we have one entity, Abaddon, which the JW's seem to identify as Jesus himself, and you identify as the Antichrist.You forgot one, "Abaddon" (Rev 9:11), but he's a bad guy.
Well strictly speaking "angel" is just a messenger. So Jesus Christ is a "Messenger" of of God in that sense. I firmly believe that "The Angel of Jehovah" in the Old Testament is the Son of God before His incarnation.
Now we come to "the messenger of the abyss" in R not be able to resist the lie.
This is a man and not an angelic creature.
Originally posted by jaywillLet's not get side-tracked. That is what they are trying to do.You forgot one, "Abaddon" (Rev 9:11), but he's a bad guy.
Well strictly speaking "angel" is just a messenger. So Jesus Christ is a "Messenger" of of God in that sense. I firmly believe that [b]"The Angel of Jehovah" in the Old Testament is the Son of God before His incarnation.
Now we come to "the messenger of the abyss" in R ...[text shortened]... not be able to resist the lie.
This is a man and not an angelic creature.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYeah, this seems like a tough exegetical issue, requiring some interpretive leaps regardless of your position. It's a pretty interesting case, though. A debate on it between different camps would be like a master class in Biblical exegesis.
I dunno, i have never really thought about it, i am open to the possibility though.
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-Removed-no its something that i have never thought about, i mean, i cannot remember the first
time i thought, oh i wonder who abbadon the destroyer is. I am more inclined to
spend my days thinking about making love with my wife, fishing and why i suck at
chess, but abbadon, nope, cant remember the last time it crossed my mind
where did he say it divesgeester, where?
Originally posted by bbarrI am sure the Gmam posted some scriptural references, Christ having the keys of
Yeah, this seems like a tough exegetical issue, requiring some interpretive leaps regardless of your position. It's a pretty interesting case, though. A debate on it between different camps would be like a master class in Biblical exegesis.
hades etc, yes i think it borders on conjecture, but like you say, its interesting that the
two camps are diametrically opposed.