The book of Revelation (12:7, 10, 12) specifically mentions Michael in connection with the establishment of God’s Kingdom and links this event with trouble for the earth: “And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: ‘Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down . . . On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea.’” Jesus Christ is later depicted as leading the heavenly armies in war against the nations of the earth. (Re 19:11-16) This would mean a period of distress for them, which would logically be included in the “time of distress” that is associated with Michael’s standing up. (Da 12:1) Since the Son of God is to fight the nations, it is only reasonable that he was the one who with his angels earlier battled against the superhuman dragon, Satan the Devil, and his angels.
So read the scriptures and learn................
The rhetorical question of Hebrews chapter one strongly suggests that no angel in the Scriptures is or can be compared to the Son of God.
"For to WHICH of the angels has He ever said,, "You are My Son; this day I have begotten You? " (Hebrews 1:5a)
How many angels do we have from which to answer this question ? We have only TWO names, and possibly THREE. These are the ONLY named angels in the whole Bible:
Michael,
Gabriel,
Possibly "Daystar" or "Lucifer [Latin]"
To WHICH of the angels has God said "You are My; this day I have begotten You" ?
Now answer the question.
If you put the question to me, I say the reply to this question is obviously "TO NO ANGEL in the whole of Scripture has God said such a thing."
Originally posted by galveston75beautiful!
The book of Revelation (12:7, 10, 12) specifically mentions Michael in connection with the establishment of God’s Kingdom and links this event with trouble for the earth: “And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: ‘Now have come to pass the s ...[text shortened]... uman dragon, Satan the Devil, and his angels.
So read the scriptures and learn................
Originally posted by jaywillGood question Jaywill.
The rhetorical question of Hebrews chapter one strongly suggests that no angel in the Scriptures is or can be compared to the Son of God.
[b]"For to WHICH of the angels has He ever said,, "You are My Son; this day I have begotten You? " (Hebrews 1:5a)
How many angels do we have from which to answer this question ? We have only TWO names, and po ...[text shortened]... s obviously "TO NO ANGEL in the whole of Scripture has God said such a thing."[/b]
These guys dont think out their doctrine carefully to see if there are obvious inconsistencies or contradictions.
Originally posted by jaywillYou forgot one, "Abaddon" (Rev 9:11), but he's a bad guy.
The rhetorical question of Hebrews chapter one strongly suggests that no angel in the Scriptures is or can be compared to the Son of God.
[b]"For to WHICH of the angels has He ever said,, "You are My Son; this day I have begotten You? " (Hebrews 1:5a)
How many angels do we have from which to answer this question ? We have only TWO names, and po s obviously "TO NO ANGEL in the whole of Scripture has God said such a thing."[/b]
Jesus just an angel?
Some object to identifying Jesus with the angel of Jehovah mentioned in the Hebrew
Scriptures. For Trinitarians, of course, such an identification poses a problem since it
shows conclusively that he is not equal to Jehovah God. But even some who do not
accept the Trinity doctrine feel that Jesus’ identity with an angel somehow detracts
from his dignity.
Remember, though, that the basic meaning of “angel” (Hebrew, malakh; Greek,
aggelos) is “messenger.” As the “Word” (Greek, logos), Jesus is God’s messenger
par excellence. Remember, too, that as the archangel, as well as “the firstborn of all
creation,” Jesus had the highest rank among the angels even before he came to
earth.—Colossians 1:15.
True, the apostle Paul wrote to the Hebrews: “He [Jesus] has become better than the
angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.”
(Hebrews 1:4; Philippians 2:9, 10) However, this describes his situation after his
having been here on earth. He was still the archangel and “the beginning of the
creation by God.” (Revelation 3:14) But he became better than the angels. The
‘more excellent name’ or position is something he did not possess before coming to
earth. (These scriptures contradict the Trinitarian concept that the Son is and always
has been equal in every way to the Father.)
Hence, the fact that Michael is the archangel, chief of the angels, the fact that he
stands up to rule as King, and the fact that he takes the lead in casting Satan out of
heaven at the time of the birth of God’s Kingdom all lead us to just one conclusion:
‘Michael the great prince’ is none other than Jesus Christ himself.—Daniel 12:1.
Originally posted by bbarrWhy do you say this is a "bad guy"?
You forgot one, "Abaddon" (Rev 9:11), but he's a bad guy.
(Abaddon) [from Heb., meaning “Destruction”].
At Revelation 9:11 this Hebrew word is transliterated into the English text. There we read concerning the symbolic plague of locusts that they have “a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.”
In Hebrew the word ’avaddohn' means “destruction” and may also refer to “the place of destruction.” It appears in the original Hebrew text a total of five times, and in four of the occurrences it is used to parallel “the burial place,” “Sheol,” and “death.” (Ps 88:11; Job 26:6; 28:22; Pr 15:11) The word ’avaddohn in these texts evidently refers to the destructive processes that ensue with human death, and these scriptures indicate that decay or destruction takes place in Sheol, the common grave of mankind. At Job 31:12 ’avaddohn designates the damaging effect of an adulterous course. Job declared: “That [adulterous course] is a fire that would eat clear to destruction [adh-’avaddohn], and among all my produce it would take root.”—Compare Pr 6:26-28, 32; 7:26, 27.
Abaddon, the angel of the abyss—who is he?
At Revelation 9:11, however, the word “Abaddon” is used as the name of “the angel of the abyss.” The corresponding Greek name Apollyon means “Destroyer.” In the past century there were efforts made to show that this text prophetically applied to individuals such as Emperor Vespasian, Muhammad, and even Napoleon, and the angel was generally regarded as “satanic.” It should be noted, however, that at Revelation 20:1-3 the angel having “the key of the abyss” is shown to be God’s representative from heaven, and rather than being “satanic,” he binds and hurls Satan into the abyss. Commenting on Revelation 9:11, The Interpreter’s Bible says: “Abaddon, however, is an angel not of Satan but of God, performing his work of destruction at God’s bidding.”
In the Hebrew scriptures just considered, it is evident that ’avaddohn is paralleled with Sheol and death. At Revelation 1:18 we find Christ Jesus stating: “I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.” His power with regard to the abyss is shown at Luke 8:31. That he has destroying power, including the power of destruction over Satan, is evident from Hebrews 2:14, which says that Jesus partook of blood and flesh in order that “through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil.” At Revelation 19:11-16 he is clearly represented as God’s appointed Destroyer or Executioner.
Originally posted by galveston75So Abaddon, Michael, and Jesus Christ are all the same entity? He's the Lord of the Abyss, and the Archangel, and the Son of God? That's your view?
Why do you say this is a "bad guy"?
(Abaddon) [from Heb., meaning “Destruction”].
At Revelation 9:11 this Hebrew word is transliterated into the English text. There we read concerning the symbolic plague of locusts that they have “a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is Abaddon, but in Greek he has ...[text shortened]... At Revelation 19:11-16 he is clearly represented as God’s appointed Destroyer or Executioner.
Originally posted by galveston75Because the Hebrew term 'Abaddon' means 'destruction' as you mention, and in the OT the word is continually conjoined with references to Hell and death. In Revelation Abaddon is referred to as the king reigning over an army of locusts from Hell that are released upon the earth and run around torturing people. He is called "the angel of the Abyss", or "bottomless pit". And despite the passages about an angel from Heaven who opens up the Abyss with a key, there is no scriptural evidence I'm aware of indicating that this angel is the same as Abaddon; and hence no reason to believe that Abaddon is holy (I mean, really, what good guy leads an army of torturing locusts?). But, of course, I'm no Biblical scholar. My background is in analytic philosophy. So I'm sure I'm missing a whole host of stuff that you, jaywill, and other folk here have probably memorized.
You have to answer my question first. Why do you call him a bad guy?
O.K., so now answer my question.
And, as an ancillary question: Are there any other entities mentioned in the Bible that you also think are actually Jesus?
Originally posted by galveston75Michael is like a General over an army, while Christ is like the King as
The book of Revelation (12:7, 10, 12) specifically mentions Michael in connection with the establishment of God’s Kingdom and links this event with trouble for the earth: “And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: ‘Now have come to pass the s ...[text shortened]... uman dragon, Satan the Devil, and his angels.
So read the scriptures and learn................
Commander-in-Chief.
P.S. Michael would not stand up against Satan without the command to
do so by the Commander-in-Chief, which in this case is the King of Kings
and the Lord of Lords, Jesus the Christ.
Originally posted by bbarrChrist has numerous titles, lord of the harvest, son of man, faithful and true witness etc etc
Because the Hebrew term 'Abaddon' means 'destruction' as you mention, and in the OT the word is continually conjoined with references to Hell and death. In Revelation Abaddon is referred to as the king reigning over an army of locusts from Hell that are released upon the earth and run around torturing people. He is called "the angel of the Abyss", or "bottom ...[text shortened]... re any other entities mentioned in the Bible that you also think are actually Jesus?