Are catholics christians???

Originally posted by DoctorDara
Since belief in God and Jesus is the basic requirement of being a Christian, an atheist does not qualify. ;-)

Ok... but that was never under discussion here.

Originally posted by DoctorDara
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.

The italicized portion is not from the 4th century.

Originally posted by sjeg
Actually, they'd tend to go out of their way not to. One year they celebrated Mexmas, eating Mexican food and wearing silly hats to make a statement about their opposition to Christianity.

One wears a 'Religion is stupid' t-shirt.

No to politics.

Yes and no to zealous re: evangelicals. I've often pointed out, though I don't think it sticks, that in th ...[text shortened]... on many different isssues - just some thoughts. Maybe needs another thread or two. Ciao!

I know the sort you're talking about.

I call them 'Anything but Christ'ians.

Originally posted by sjeg
Ok... but that was never under discussion here.

That was the only thing I was discussing: there's no such thing as a Christian atheist.

Originally posted by Palynka
No, I didn't. You were attempting to claim there was something as a Christian atheist and now you deny it implicitly. If you can see the contradiction in your opinions, you can see my point.

Originally posted by Palynka
No, I didn't. You were attempting to claim there was something as a Christian atheist and now you deny it implicitly. If you can see the contradiction in your opinions, you can see my point.

To talk of a christian atheist is indeed a contradiction. With other words, you would be saying:
"A person believing in a personal God (christian) denying the existence of God (atheist)."
By the way, it's from a logical point of view impossible to affirm that God doesn't exist...

Originally posted by louisXIV
By the way, it's from a logical point of view impossible to affirm that God doesn't exist...

From a logical viewpoint, the only possible thing that can be said about God is that there's no evidence for believing that he exists.

Originally posted by Palynka
From a logical viewpoint, the only possible thing that can be said about God is that there's no evidence for believing that he exists.

Actually, you can't say that.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Actually, you can't say that.

I'll bite. Why not?

Originally posted by Palynka
I'll bite. Why not?

Belief does not require evidence.

Originally posted by Ian68
Belief does not require evidence.

Logical belief does, but faith doesn't. That was my point...

Originally posted by Palynka
Logical belief does, but faith doesn't. That was my point...

Is it possible to say 'logical belief'? Surely if you have come to an opinion through sound reasoning and examination of evidence then that is knowledge not belief.

Originally posted by Ian68
Is it possible to say 'logical belief'? Surely if you have come to an opinion through sound reasoning and examination of evidence then that is knowledge not belief.

Yes, it is possible. Most knowledge that can be gained through induction or abduction cannot be known with absolute certainty and therefore depends on degrees of belief based on the amount of evidence in favour of that belief.

Edit - Depends on how you define belief, obviously, but separating these concepts allows us to clearly view the dangers and limits of what we call knowledge.

Maybe an epistemologist would say that my definition of belief is wrong and provide a clear and concise way to express the difference between what I called 'logical belief' and 'faith'...

Originally posted by Palynka
I'll bite. Why not?

Simply because it is a universal negative affirmation based on empirical evidence.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Simply because it is a universal negative affirmation based on empirical evidence.

No, no, all I said is that there is no evidence supporting that belief. I didn't affirm that God didn't exist.

Originally posted by Palynka
No, no, all I said is that there is no evidence supporting that belief. I didn't affirm that God didn't exist.

I didn't misunderstand you the first time.

What you're saying is still a universal negative.