Originally posted by PalynkaMy point was that one can be culturally Christian, like so many of my atheist friends - and know it, or be largely unaware of it.
Would that make me a Christian Anti-Christian? 🙂
What anti-Christian sentiment, sjeg? Defining Christian by other means than religion is more demeaning for Christianity than saying that Christian atheists is a contradiction in terms.
Edit - I see your point, I meant that your definition was crap, not Christianity or Christians.
You don't think one can be culturally Christian outside of religious views?
Originally posted by sjegThat an atheist can have an important background of Christian culture doesn't imply that he is a Christian.
My point was that one can be culturally Christian, like so many of my atheist friends - and know it, or be largely unaware of it.
You don't think one can be culturally Christian outside of religious views?
Originally posted by PalynkaOriginally posted by Palynka
You can define it however you want, but that doesn't prevent it from being crap.
You can define it however you want, but that doesn't prevent it from being crap.
Sorry, but that's completely nonsense. How do you define a christian? Do you actually know where the word comes from and what it means? If so, your statement is impossible.
Originally posted by louisXIVRead my post that follows that one, if I wasn't clear enough.
Originally posted by Palynka
[b]You can define it however you want, but that doesn't prevent it from being crap.
Sorry, but that's completely nonsense. How do you define a christian? Do you actually know where the word comes from and what it means? If so, your statement is impossible.[/b]
Originally posted by sjegNo, I didn't. You were attempting to claim there was something as a Christian atheist and now you deny it implicitly. If you can see the contradiction in your opinions, you can see my point.
Of course not. I never suggested otherwise. You've failed to understand my point. Leave it at that.
Originally posted by PalynkaSo there's no such thing as an atheist who is culturally Christian, then?
No, I didn't. You were attempting to claim there was something as a Christian atheist and now you deny it implicitly. If you can see the contradiction in your opinions, you can see my point.
Originally posted by sjegNo. His culture may be influenced by Christian culture, but he is not culturally Christian as religion is an important part of the culture.
So there's no such thing as an atheist who is culturally Christian, then?
Especially when that means that the atheist actively denied embracing the Christian religion in a background of Christian culture.
Originally posted by lucifershammerNo - I was more thinking of (well I've a friend or two who springs to mind) someone who is staunchly atheist and above all anti-Christian, who, ironically, in their manners/mannerisms, customs and thought are entirely Christian, even in their atheism, if you understand (and I see why Palynka does not - I'm not explaining myself clearly enough, it seems).
Do you just mean someone who goes to church each month for Mom's sake or Granny's sake or something?
Originally posted by sjegCould you be more specific? Do you mean that they celebrate Christmas, Easter etc.? Do you mean they adopt positions normally held by Christians on political issues (e.g. abortion)? Do you mean they are as zealous about their atheism as evangelical Christians are?
No - I was more thinking of (well I've a friend or two who springs to mind) someone who is staunchly atheist and above all anti-Christian, who, ironically, in their manners/mannerisms, customs and thought are entirely Christian, even in their atheism, if you understand (and I see why Palynka does not - I'm not explaining myself clearly enough, it seems).
EDIT: Pal tends to approach things in a more philosophical fashion. He might be technically correct on this, but perhaps if you elaborated we would all have a better idea of what you're talking about.
Originally posted by lucifershammerActually, they'd tend to go out of their way not to. One year they celebrated Mexmas, eating Mexican food and wearing silly hats to make a statement about their opposition to Christianity.
Could you be more specific? Do you mean that they celebrate Christmas, Easter etc.? Do you mean they adopt positions normally held by Christians on political issues (e.g. abortion)? Do you mean they are as zealous about their atheism as evangelical Christians are?
EDIT: Pal tends to approach things in a more philosophical fashion. He might be techn ...[text shortened]... is, but perhaps if you elaborated we would all have a better idea of what you're talking about.
One wears a 'Religion is stupid' t-shirt.
No to politics.
Yes and no to zealous re: evangelicals. I've often pointed out, though I don't think it sticks, that in their anti-Christian attitude, they are as bigoted as the most loony of Christian fundamentalists they oppose so much. The go to the same extremes to differentiate themselves, they are as extreme politically re: issues such as those mentioned above, or the EU constitution re: God/Christianity or the Italian Catholic (Butiglione, remember him?) who was sacked for his Faith.
So in being avidly secularists, the are as extreme and as closed-minded as any religious fundamentalist.
What I was suggesting is that Christianity is in all of us, from our manners via chivalry, to the shaking of a hand, to the salutary kiss on the cheek to our values and morality.
Furthermore, Christianity and Western Society gives rise to the freedom of thought and expression in society that we see today, and not the opposite, as some would have you believe- thus even their staunch anti-Christianity is born of a typical member of a liberal, modern Christian society.
Any clearer what I'm getting at? It's a large subject, and I've touched on many different isssues - just some thoughts. Maybe needs another thread or two. Ciao!
Feeling some confusion between Catholicism and being a Christian in general. I was raised that Catholicism is a branch of Christianity and though flawed in some respects like most organized religion, it has a lot to offer in general. I was raised that the Nicene Creed put together in the 4th century is considered the test between if a sect is Christian or not:
"We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen. "
To be a christian, the standard of faith has always been John 3:16 for salvation: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour and believe in him to have eternal life. Since belief in God and Jesus is the basic requirement of being a Christian, an atheist does not qualify. ;-)