@pb1022 saidFor many Christians, they think of themselves as an empty tank in a car, God being the petrol. (They go nowhere by themselves).
I’m not talking about whether sin dwells in me. Paul talks extensively about the struggle between the Spirit and the flesh in Romans 7 and Galatians.
What I’m talking about - and what FMF was talking about - is whether you think you *present day as a Christian* are “evil.”
That’s the question. If you don’t want to answer it, fine. But why resort to obfuscation?
This supports my argument that religion holds us back as a species, leading to the false belief that we are worthless on our own.
@kellyjay saidSo do you think you *present day as a Christian* are evil or not?
I think the whole human race is fallen, without exception, and without God, we are sinners who will do whatever we want if we think we can get away with it or justify ourselves in some manner. We are the righteousness of God in Christ, but that has all to do with Jesus, and nothing on us we cannot earn that, we cannot achieve that, it is a gift! The fact that God saw us at o ...[text shortened]... n that is deceptive since our sinful nature will always highlight us in ways we may not see clearly.
Why won’t you answer that simple question?
Is it your pride?
Is it because your “humble brag” was exposed as contradicting the Holy Bible and blasphemous and you refuse to come off it due to your pride?
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidWe are made in the image of God; God came and died for us while we were yet sinners to save us. God, who knows the beginning from the end, saw fit to lay down His life for us; we are not worthless, far from it, each person is a unique creature, one of a kind made in the image of God. Worth is not determined by its rarity but by how much someone is willing to pay for it. The sinless Son of God became sin, to redeem us that price is mind-blowing beyond reckoning, so worthless is not a word that should be applied to any human being.
For many Christians, they think of themselves as an empty tank in a car, God being the petrol. (They go nowhere by themselves).
This supports my argument that religion holds us back as a species, leading to the false belief that we are worthless on our own.
@pb1022 saidI've answered several times, and you seem to ignore what I have said; you have accused me of a few things in this exchange as well. I think every Christian in Christ has the righteousness of God, that however is because of Christ making us so, we are sinners saved by grace, sinners being the keyword here. All of us have sinned, we are all sinners, our sinful nature is evil, and if you dispute that, use scripture. We are still walking out our sanctification in Christ, saved, forgiven in Christ, but we are what we are without Him. People are still sinners saved by Christ; we can do some horrible things as Christians unless you think once saved we will never sin we become perfect people; I recall there was one that used to come here who thought that his name I am blanking on.
So do you think you *present day as a Christian* are evil or not?
Why won’t you answer that simple question?
Is it your pride?
Is it because your “humble brag” was exposed as contradicting the Holy Bible and blasphemous and you refuse to come off it due to your pride?
@kellyjay saidYou keep saying “sin” over and over and that’s not the question.
I've answered several times, and you seem to ignore what I have said; you have accused me of a few things in this exchange as well. I think every Christian in Christ has the righteousness of God, that however is because of Christ making us so, we are sinners saved by grace, sinners being the keyword here. All of us have sinned, we are all sinners, our sinful nature is evil, ...[text shortened]... ct people; I recall there was one that used to come here who thought that his name I am blanking on.
Everyone knows that Christians on occasion will still sin. Nobody’s denying that.
Nobody’s denying that Christians will still struggle with temptation and sin - the Apostle Paul wrote on that extensively.
The question you are avoiding is whether you think you - *present day, with Christ and with God’s Holy Spirit indwelling you, as a Christian* - are “evil.”
Why you can’t directly answer that is baffling.
But I suggest you consider that a Christian who considers himself evil - and you said FMF was correct in stating how you view yourself - is insulting the cross of Christ and what He accomplished for him and is directly blaspheming God’s Holy Spirit indwelling him.
You may win plaudits from atheists for your “humble brag” of declaring yourself evil, but don’t expect plaudits from Christians who know the value of what Jesus Christ did for them and who know their true value and identity *in Jesus Christ.*
Stop caring so much what atheists think of you and stop trying to impress them.
@kevin-eleven saidAre you in a contest where you win prizes based on the number of posts you make?
sha sha malango
@pb1022 saidNei, jurako.
Are you in a contest where you win prizes based on the number of posts you make?
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@pb1022 saidWhat you consider evil and what I do are not the same things, since as I have been pointing out to you that we can still do wicked things, we can still do evil things, and sometimes because our hearts are deceitful, we may not even grasp the debt of what we do. I believe that the closer we get to God, the more we see sin for what it is in our own lives. You cannot have an occasional sinner and not call them a sinner, so if you do not deny that, why do you disagree with me on this point?
You keep saying “sin” over and over and that’s not the question.
Everyone knows that Christians on occasion will still sin. Nobody’s denying that.
Nobody’s denying that Christians will still struggle with temptation and sin - the Apostle Paul wrote on that extensively.
The question you are avoiding is whether you think you - *present day, with Christ and with God’s Ho ...[text shortened]... in Jesus Christ.*
Stop caring so much what atheists think of you and stop trying to impress them.
You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm holding back to impress anyone here.
@kellyjay saidBunch of swine here. But pearls occur anyway.
What you consider evil and what I do are not the same things, since as I have been pointing out to you that we can still do wicked things, we can still do evil things, and sometimes because our hearts are deceitful, we may not even grasp the debt of what we do. I believe that the closer we get to God, the more we see sin for what it is in our own lives. You cannot have an oc ...[text shortened]... is point?
You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm holding back to impress anyone here.
@kellyjay saidYou’re closer but you’re still not addressing the question.
What you consider evil and what I do are not the same things, since as I have been pointing out to you that we can still do wicked things, we can still do evil things, and sometimes because our hearts are deceitful, we may not even grasp the debt of what we do. I believe that the closer we get to God, the more we see sin for what it is in our own lives. You cannot have an oc ...[text shortened]... is point?
You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm holding back to impress anyone here.
Not talking about evil behavior or evil acts or sinful behavior or sinful acts.
We’re talking about whether you consider yourself - *in the present-day, as a Christian, with God’s Holy Spirit indwelling you and with your sins cleansed by the blood of Christ* - “evil.”
I acknowledge you and every other Christian still commits sins and that some of those sins may even be considered evil depending on our definition of the word.
But I’m asking if you consider yourself - your identity, the sum total of who you are - to be “evil.”
A perfectly reasonable man may occasionally drink wine or beer and not be a drunkard.
A perfectly reasonable man may on rare occasion drink to excess and not be a drunkard.
There is a difference between occasionally sinning and repenting and being an evil person.
But I’m no longer willing to engage with you on this because I think you’re deliberately missing the point.