Atheists vs Agnostics

Originally posted by @pianoman1
Everyone is deep down agnostic.
How can it be otherwise?
Unless God were to announce himself in clouds of glory and heavenly choirs of angels, no one truly knows.
Even the most committed theist has doubts. Therefore, he is agnostic.
Even the most committed atheist has to leave a minute percentage to allow for the possibility of his existence.
The pro ...[text shortened]... that everyone thinks they know and off they go on their white charger fighting for their cause.

Do you think Adam had doubts?
Do you think Noah had doubts?
Do you think Abraham had doubts?
Do you think Moses had doubts?
Do you think Jesus had doubts?

Originally posted by @divegeester
This idea that because of an intangible god given thing called “faith”, that some people will be supernaturally kept alive in eternal bliss, while other people who do not have god given “faith” will be supernaturally burnt alive for the same eternity, while Jesus is being worshiped by the former group and simultaneously supervising the the later in hell ...[text shortened]... want to love him, because of this concept, is the second most ridiculous concept ever invented.

And still, you guys just can't let it go that some people do not agree with you.

That's all that it boils down to for you.

Every single religious concept gets run through this same old boring filter, which you merely use to attack those who disagree with you. You're a one-trick pony. I'd love to see a religious conversation from either one of you that doesn't revert back to this tired old "gotcha".

Originally posted by @eladar
Reason applied to the natural will obviously be in opposition to God.

This is only one of the more stupid statements you've made.

Originally posted by @suzianne
And still, you guys just can't let it go that some people do not agree with you.

That's all that it boils down to for you.

Every single religious concept gets run through this same old boring filter, which you merely use to attack those who disagree with you. You're a one-trick pony. I'd love to see a religious conversation from either one of you that doesn't revert back to this tired old "gotcha".

This is a debate forum suzianne. Try addressing to the succinct point in my post instead of attacking the poster.

Originally posted by @divegeester
This is a debate forum suzianne. Try addressing to the succinct point in my post instead of attacking the poster.

You know that I cannot take an opposing view to yours.

What I have contention with is that this is your "litmus test", so that if people do not agree, they should be consistently and repeatedly beaten over the head with your disapproval of them until either they concede, which isn't likely, and not entirely fair, or they just quit interacting with you, which you then use to further your contention that they are horrible people.

In short, it's not your point I take issue with. It's your method.

Originally posted by @suzianne
You know that I cannot take an opposing view to yours.

What I have contention with is that this is your "litmus test", so that if people do not agree, they should be consistently and repeatedly beaten over the head with your disapproval of them until either they concede, which isn't likely, and not entirely fair, or they just quit interacting with you, ...[text shortened]... they are horrible people.

In short, it's not your point I take issue with. It's your method.

Then try being precise about what it is you are criticising in my method, point to what exactly it is that I said, instead of just being upset that you have to concede that you agree with me, especially against your buddy sonship, whom I notice you NEVER take issue with over these horrible beliefs he has, even though you disagree with him.

Furthermore if you feel I am “beating people over the head” then please report my posts to the site administration. Otherwise kindly desist in throwing around these absurd claims.

Originally posted by @pianoman1
If you cannot prove the existence of God, where does your faith come from? Why believe in something for no reason? Does your faith perhaps come from conditioning, indoctrination or social expectation? If so, it is bogus. Do you look at the world and think 'how can this beautifully designed world possibly have come into existence without a Prime Cause? If ...[text shortened]... m. I do not undstand. I am a simple person, though wise enough to see more than black and white.

I cannot prove it to you, or anyone else. Only God can, and He only does that to those
that seek Him with all of their hearts. I believe God has made it plain about Himself in the
things He created, but anyone can look at it and miss the forest for the trees. Anyone
who doesn't feel the need to seek Him out will remain where they are.

You are amiss when you think my faith is only about how I was conditioned, I didn't
become a Christian until I was in mid-twenties. Before then my family was very broken
and so was I, doing all kinds of things I now regret and ashamed of. When I became a
Christian Jesus flipped my life around, it wasn't any social expectation, the only
expectations I had on me was partying and attempting to get as much pleasure out of life
as I could.

With respect to how the universe got here without God, no one has a cause in or out of
science how all of this came from nothing, so they go about attempting to invent some
type of cause. I also believe in evolution, I just don't believe life came from a simple
beginning and evolved into the vast array we see today. So where did it all come from,
don't know out side of God, how did life start, without God the so called beginning of life
requires countless things to all line up perfectly at the exact same time, and even then no
one really knows how it could have started since they cannot even do it in a lab where all
of the conditions are controlled, let alone happen in a completely uncontrolled
environment.

Originally posted by @wolfgang59
Nope.
Agnostics certainly do have opinions on the existence of god.
Namely that that knowledge (the existence or non-existence of god) is unknowable.

On top of that they may either be atheist or theist.

So you believe agnostic simply means admitting you can't know but you can still pick a side.

Originally posted by @divegeester
No, you didn’t you are contradicting yourself. Now you are being dishonest about it.

When asked how someone can can “choose” to believe something they don’t believe in...
You said:
“Only god can open their eyes”
And then you said:
“They have to choose based on what they can see”

So if god has not opened their eyes, how can they see in order to choose?

So you think people who do not have all the information can't make decisions for themselves?

Originally posted by @eladar
So you think people who do not have all the information can't make decisions for themselves?

It is you who said “thay cannot see unless God opens their eyes” not me. 🙂

Originally posted by @divegeester
It is you who said “thay cannot see unless God opens their eyes” not me. 🙂

People with incomplete information make their own decisions.

Originally posted by @eladar
People with incomplete information make their own decisions.

That’s right, they do.

And if god hasn’t “opened their eyes” as you claim, then they cannot be held accountable for making the wrong decision can they.

Originally posted by @suzianne to a poster she disapproves of and constantly beats over the head
What I have contention with is that this is your "litmus test", so that if people do not agree, they should be consistently and repeatedly beaten over the head with your disapproval of them until either they concede, which isn't likely, and not entirely fair, or they just quit interacting with you, which you then use to further your contention that they are horrible people.

Oh the irony.

Originally posted by @divegeester
That’s right, they do.

And if god hasn’t “opened their eyes” as you claim, then they cannot be held accountable for making the wrong decision can they.

Of course they can. You obviously have not had your eyes opened.

Originally posted by @eladar
So you believe agnostic simply means admitting you can't know but you can still pick a side.

I'm telling you what agnosticism is.