Attributes of God

@kellyjay said
We live with the consequences of our choices each generation prior sets up the next. Many believe we are evolving upward, it could be heading downward, not to improved versions, but less stable ones. As is more likely with decay of processes over time.

So now we come to it. Your god punishes the innocent for the sins of their parents. The god that you say is and does nothing but good all of the time. Do you not see how this doesn't work?

Your understanding of evolution is pitiful, as is the sickness of your beliefs.

@indonesia-phil said
So now we come to it. Your god punishes the innocent for the sins of their parents. The god that you say is and does nothing but good all of the time. Do you not see how this doesn't work?

Your understanding of evolution is pitiful, as is the sickness of your beliefs.

We have to live with the consequence of our actions; that will be true when
we do things that are healthy and not. Do you not see how this works?

@kellyjay said
Really, if it were not for the love of God, there would be no hope!

"Hope" for what?

@kellyjay said
Everything that happens is common to man.

So your God figure punishes everyone with things like "babies with tumours" including the people who "choose" to "walk as God directed" them? How can that be described as "good"?

@kellyjay said
We live with the consequences of our choices each generation prior sets up the next.

Would it be "good" if humans punished each other for things their parents and grandparents did?

@fmf said
Would it be "good" if humans punished each other for things their parents and grandparents did?

I was talking about consequences not punishment, we do many things that negatively affect us.

@kellyjay said
I was talking about consequences not punishment, we do many things that negatively affect us.

The "babies with tumours" thing happens as a CONSEQUENCE of some people "choosing" not to "walk as God directed" them ~ at least it does according to your beliefs ~ so unless you think "babies with tumours" is some kind of blessing or reward or some manifestation of divine "good" bestowed upon the beings your God figure created, then it is clearly a PUNISHMENT. To pretend otherwise would be sheer sophistry.

@kellyjay said
We have to live with the consequence of our actions; that will be true when
we do things that are healthy and not. Do you not see how this works?

'We' having to live with the consequences of our actions is a very different thing from someone else having to live with the consequences of our actions, if you really can't see the difference then go away somewhere quiet and think about it until you do. According to your beliefs, in the scenario which I have offered you as an example, (and there are many other possible examples) the child's parents don't believe in your god so the child gets a brain tumour and dies a horrible and painful death. And your god does nothing but good? Your beliefs are morally abhorrent, as is the god that you believe in.

@indonesia-phil said
'We' having to live with the consequences of our actions is a very different thing from someone else having to live with the consequences of our actions, if you really can't see the difference then go away somewhere quiet and think about it until you do. According to your beliefs, in the scenario which I have offered you as an example, (and there are many other possibl ...[text shortened]... ur god does nothing but good? Your beliefs are morally abhorrent, as is the god that you believe in.

And that is the world we live in, you think a parent’s drug habit will not have a negative consequences or an abusive father? We are told to love and care for one another and do we?

@kellyjay said
And that is the world we live in, you think a parent’s drug habit will not have a negative consequences or an abusive father? We are told to love and care for one another and do we?

You're sliding away from the subject as usual. What we are discussing here is your god, who you say deliberately screws with a child's genetic inheritance because of the sins of their parents. So in my suggested scenario, he gives a kid a brain tumour, and this is the god that you worship; you know, the one who does nothing but good. Children are born with all manner of genetically inherited problems from parents who are neither drug users or abusers, (you know, the kind of people who love and care for one another and their child) and according to you your god did that. That as well you know is what we're talking about, and this is the god that you worship, and give praise to for his goodness and mercy.

Whilst I'm on, whatever happened to Jesus taking our sins away? Since according to you your god is still punishing the innocent child of 'sinful' parents, can you explain the difference pre and post Jesus?

Your religion is just a mass of contradictory nonsense, which fails when subject to the mildest scrutiny, and when asked the most fundamental questions, can't answer any of them in any coherent, rational or logical way.

@indonesia-phil said
You're sliding away from the subject as usual. What we are discussing here is your god, who you say deliberately screws with a child's genetic inheritance because of the sins of their parents. So in my suggested scenario, he gives a kid a brain tumour, and this is the god that you worship; you know, the one who does nothing but good. Children are born with all manner o ...[text shortened]... d the most fundamental questions, can't answer any of them in any coherent, rational or logical way.

I'm not at all sliding away from anything; we play a part in all human life; what you
or I do can affect the lives of others. We can spray chemicals on our crops, which
could cause cancer; it is all cause and effect. We could live lives that show
compassion and grace or hold on to all the ills done to us, real or imagined, and
hate.

Our lives and choices are all part of this life; we all face tribulation here, most of
which we play a part in concerning cause and affect. Even when that isn't true, what
happens to one can happen to all. We see the life we live, the choices we make, and
how they play out, seeing the good and the bad.

Do you think God should not let that happen, that if someone wants to harm
another using a stick, God should automatically change the stick into rubber,
making it harmless? Do you think God should not show us and all of the creation
what the effect of evil is in His Kingdom, thereby removing all choice from
everything? He couldn't make us in His image very well if we were not free to
choose our paths and desires as He can.

@indonesia-phil said
You're sliding away from the subject as usual. What we are discussing here is your god, who you say deliberately screws with a child's genetic inheritance because of the sins of their parents. So in my suggested scenario, he gives a kid a brain tumour, and this is the god that you worship; you know, the one who does nothing but good. Children are born with all manner o ...[text shortened]... d the most fundamental questions, can't answer any of them in any coherent, rational or logical way.

Judgment day is coming, and that day will not occur until this world has played out;
then, rewards and punishments will be dealt out in righteousness. Either in the
forgiveness and grace offered by God for everything we have ever done, or we stand
before God and take what is coming to us.

@kellyjay said
I'm not at all sliding away from anything; we play a part in all human life; what you
or I do can affect the lives of others. We can spray chemicals on our crops, which
could cause cancer; it is all cause and effect. We could live lives that show
compassion and grace or hold on to all the ills done to us, real or imagined, and
hate.

Our lives and choices are all part ...[text shortened]... ldn't make us in His image very well if we were not free to
choose our paths and desires as He can.

We're not talking about what we do to each other, or what damage our species has done and is doing to the natural world, I daresay we would agree about that.

What we've been discussing is your belief that your god, who does only good things, punishes unborn children at the point of their conception for the sins of their parents. I've asked you to tell us what you think is good about that.

And you have ignored my question about Jesus 'taking our sins away', and yet there's your god punishing the innocent for things that they haven't even done. It seems to be a case of 'Jesus saves, but god scores on the rebound.' Jesus suffering up there on the cross seems to have been a waste of everyone's time.

It makes no sense, by any definition, punishing the innocent for the sins of their parents is an act of unmitigated evil, and I can see no 'good' in it whatsoever. Answer that.

@indonesia-phil said
We're not talking about what we do to each other, or what damage our species has done and is doing to the natural world, I daresay we would agree about that.

What we've been discussing is your belief that your god, who does only good things, punishes unborn children at the point of their conception for the sins of their parents. I've asked you to tell us what you t ...[text shortened]... their parents is an act of unmitigated evil, and I can see no 'good' in it whatsoever. Answer that.

I'm afraid I disagree with your statement that those who suffer from illnesses are
being punished for some reason or another. As I pointed out, we suffer from the
consequences of our actions that can lead to such things. When it rains outside
the good and bad get wet there isn't a distinction between the two, the same
with the sunshine both enjoy it, as we all do the air we breathe and so on.

Our lives are a gift from God; everyone's life is, and everything we have in this life
is also a gift from God, again the air we breathe, all the things we have in life, the
people we love and care about too. Nothing in this life is here outside of God's
will, and we have screwed up this world royally between Satan and us; it is not
what it was designed to be, yet God is showing us mercy.

I'd also say there are no good people and bad; there is nothing but people. We
tend to make distinctions by sorting out who we like and dislike, but the bottom
line is that we are all part of His creation from God's perspective.

God only doing good things isn't something I said; I said He was good, but He
does give and takes aways, blesses and condemns, gives us good things and
creates calamity working all things together in accordance with His will. So when
we get what we call good things or bad from our perspective both could harm us.
Therefore those types of things from our perspective we may find enjoyable and
have them kill us, painful and save our lives.

@kellyjay said
I'm afraid I disagree with your statement that those who suffer from illnesses are
being punished for some reason or another. As I pointed out, we suffer from the
consequences of our actions that can lead to such things.

Did your God figure not create the brain tumour of the baby Indonesia Phil was talking about?