24 Jun 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe Jehovah's Witnesses do not have any expert Greek scholars.
yes it does carry with it certain implications, like why have the trinitarians dishonestly and fraudulently translated the text as God, that is with reference to the Almighty, a title reserved for no one but the Father. Secondly, it clearly states that there are two distinct entities, and lastly, they have no basis for translating the text as God, t ...[text shortened]... their assertion that Christ is God fraudulent, nor is this the first instance of their iniquity!
That is one of the reasons they mistranslate John 1:1 that way.
All the truely expert Greek scholars are in agreement that the
right translation is "the Word was God" and not "the Word was
a god". The experts say, "The Greek article is not necessary for a
substantive to be definite; yet, when the artcle is used, definiteness
is assured and a nuance is added which is not available to authors
under different grammatical systems (e.g., Latin)."
Rorert W. Funk, The Syntax of the Greek Article".
E. C. Colwell states, "A definite predicate nominative has the article
when it follows the verb; it does not have the article when it precedes
the verb." He gives examples of this from John 1:49; 5:27; 8:12 9:5;
18:33; 19:21; Matthew 12:48 and 50; 27:11 and 37; Mark 15:2;
Luke 23:3 and 37; and others. That should be enough to get you
started if you want to investigate the rule.
24 Jun 11
Originally posted by RJHindsLol...Are your serious? The Greeks promoted the trinity so of course they are the experts. Geeezzzzz.
The Jehovah's Witnesses do not have any expert Greek scholars.
That is one of the reasons they mistranslate John 1:1 that way.
All the truely expert Greek scholars are in agreement that the
right translation is "the Word was God" and not "the Word was
a god". The experts say, "The Greek article is not necessary for a
substantive to be definite; yet, whe ...[text shortened]... thers. That should be enough to get you
started if you want to investigate the rule.
25 Jun 11
Originally posted by RJHindsYou referred to the Greek scholars as the ones who translated the bible. And that is the Bible your referring to, right? Did you read my complete post?
I am talking abouit the Greek language that the New Testament was
written in, not the Greek people. Did you halfway read my post?
It doesn't seem like it.
25 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75No, I am not referring to the ones that translated the Bible.
You referred to the Greek scholars as the ones who translated the bible. And that is the Bible your referring to, right? Did you read my complete post?
I referring to those that have PHD's in the language. Those
who know the grammer and syntax and can translate Greek
into English accurately. The Jehovah's Witnesses have no
one of that educational background in their organization.
So they don't know the rules of Greek grammer enough to
translate the Holy Bible as they did with the NWT. If I
remember correctly from my studies with them, they took
the Revised Standard Version and changed certain things
to fit their theology. They forgot to change some things in the
first edition and had to change those in a later edition. So I know
for a fact that the first NWT is not the same as the one they are
using today. I quess I should have kept mine to be able to
show other JW's, but I was so disgusted when I found out I
threw it in the trash. Someone has probably got one of the old
ones. You might be able to find one in a library somewhere.
25 Jun 11
Originally posted by RJHindsHow do you know who we have and don't have in our research departments? Tell me how you've decided this new info to me?
No, I am not referring to the ones that translated the Bible.
I referring to those that have PHD's in the language. Those
who know the grammer and syntax and can translate Greek
into English accurately. The Jehovah's Witnesses have no
one of that educational background in their organization.
So they don't know the rules of Greek grammer enough to
tra ...[text shortened]... as probably got one of the old
ones. You might be able to find one in a library somewhere.
25 Jun 11
Originally posted by RJHindsyou shut your face, you dont know anything with regard to translation, i mean it. Were you not the one who very recently stated, 'why look at the greek'? this is entirely typical of nominal Christians who have no interest in the original languages. I doubt you have even heard of the sahidic coptic text, or as we were discussing earlier, the codex sianaticus, which is another proof of the trinitarians dishonesty in translation. So RJH just shut your mouth, I wont have you telling us what we know and what we do not know, what we are capable of and what we are not capable of, you dont know anything in this regard and its the height of arrogance to presume that you do. What is more you cannot spam off on us your reference's to any of the usual jive with articles for the sahidic coptic text does contain it and it reads the word was 'a god'. Get over it spanky, it was written in Coptic, not Greek, perhaps this fact has escaped your notice, who can say?
The Jehovah's Witnesses do not have any expert Greek scholars.
That is one of the reasons they mistranslate John 1:1 that way.
All the truely expert Greek scholars are in agreement that the
right translation is "the Word was God" and not "the Word was
a god". The experts say, "The Greek article is not necessary for a
substantive to be definite; yet, whe ...[text shortened]... thers. That should be enough to get you
started if you want to investigate the rule.
25 Jun 11
Originally posted by galveston75lol, i know, you think with more than 150,000 brothers and sisters born in Greece, you think one of them would be able to read and write Greek.
How do you know who we have and don't have in our research departments? Tell me how you've decided this new info to me?
25 Jun 11
Originally posted by galveston75I apologize for giving you the wrong information about the bible used. After
How do you know who we have and don't have in our research departments? Tell me how you've decided this new info to me?
looking up some information, it must have been the American Standard
version along with the King James Version instead of the Revised Standard
version as I had previously stated. I am 67 years old now and it was a
long time ago, when I was about 25 years old, while I served my first tour
of duty at the Pentagon with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that I started
studying with the Jehovah's Witnesses. I lived in an apartment in
Alexandria, Virginia which was only a few miles away from the Pentagon.
That is where I met my first Jehovah's Witness. Let me refer you to a book
written by Raymond Franz, a former member of the Governing Body of the
Jehovah's Witnesses, called "Crisis in Conscience". On page 51 he asserts
that his uncle Fred Franz had been the principal translator of the Society's
New World Translation. In footnote 15 he writes:
The New World Translation bears no translator's name and is presented as
the anonymous work of the "New World Translation Committee." Other
members of that committee were Nathan Knorr, Albert Schroeder and
George Gangas; Fred Franz, however, was the only one with sufficient
knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt translation of this kind. He
studied Greek for two years in the University of Cincinnati but was only
self-taught in Hebrew.
I found the following references for you on google:
http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Conscience-Raymond-Franz/dp/0914675044
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_Conscience
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25 Jun 11
Isa 9:6
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
I recognise and worship ONE God, who is ONE Saviour, and Lord of all. If you feel this premise is true then I ask you who is your Saviour? If you feel it's not true, then how many Saviours do you have?
25 Jun 11
Originally posted by divegeesterI say Jesus is the Savior. The Jehovah's Witnesses will say Jehovah God.
Isa 9:6
For unto us a [b]Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
I recognise and worship ONE God, who is ONE Saviour, and Lord of all. If you feel this premise is true then I ask you who is your Saviour? If you feel it's not true, then how many Saviours do you have?[/b]
25 Jun 11
Originally posted by RJHindsYou still don't understand and until you do this will continue to be an issue for you about us.
I say Jesus is the Savior. The Jehovah's Witnesses will say Jehovah God.
I know there is nothing I can do to remotely help you to understand that Jehovah and Jesus are two completly different beings. Hence the terms Father and Son are used thru out the entire Bible. The holy Spirit is never called a son or a cousin or uncle, etc.
But I get it that you don't see it that way.
But from our knowing what the bible says, we know that Jehovah gave his son the ability to do many things that he did not have the ability to do before he assended back to heaven.
For example he was never said to be a saviour before he came to earth. He was never called a King before he came to earth and asseneded back to heaven. He was never sitting beside his Father in an exaulted position as a King before he assended back to heaven. He never faught with Satan until he assended back to heaven. We never had to pray to Jehovah thru Jesus until he asended back to heaven and he was never called a judge before he assended to heaven.
And the list goes on.
But why you don't think we know that no salvation will happen to any of us without Jesus is still a mystery to me.
But what your not understanding is that Jehovah has given this ability to his son Jesus to be our saviour is because Jehovah gave that to him. Jehovah is the actual savoiur but he has given that ability to his son. Jesus on his own would not have that ability or authority to do that. That's why the scripture says that all authority was "GIVEN" to him. Again let me repeat this.....He could not do this on his own if his Father Jehovah had not given it to him.
So yes we know very clearly that Jesus is who we will get any future salvation from, but it is because of his Father Jehovah allowing him the much earned honor to do that.
One reason is because Jesus was a man and walked this planet and saw from the eyes of a human what it is to be human and to know our pains and even to the point of feeling death and not existing at all for 3 days. He knows what we go thru to just survive and to feel hunger and being tempted by evil and to be spit on and cursed by others.
So it is rightly so that his Father has put him in charge of the Kingdom and to be the one who can bring us salvation from all that is wicked and bad..........
25 Jun 11
Originally posted by galveston75well known fact, the JW's reject all divinty schools and schools of theology, ergo they do not have the scholars that can do the requisite work of contextual translation.
How do you know who we have and don't have in our research departments? Tell me how you've decided this new info to me?
Hey this is fine, beleive what you like, but don't try and make the argument that your denominations translations and understanding of the scriptures are the correct ones or better than the rest of Christendom without offering credentials
25 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by DowardI have consistently posted the documents that we used to reference our translations, if my memory serves me correct, you struggled produce five for one of yours, so either pony up your source material or shut up, you noobs dont know anything about translation and we have dedicated teams of volunteers working full time to investigate source material and texts from which to gain an accurate rendering. Look at how your dishonest and fraudulent claims with regard to 1 Timothy 3:16 were dismissed for what they were, a lie! was that the work of a translator with so called credentials, do tell!
well known fact, the JW's reject all divinty schools and schools of theology, ergo they do not have the scholars that can do the requisite work of contextual translation.
Hey this is fine, beleive what you like, but don't try and make the argument that your denominations translations and understanding of the scriptures are the correct ones or better than the rest of Christendom without offering credentials
25 Jun 11
Originally posted by divegeesterwhat is this have you any idea what these words mean from their source language, go away and get your self educated and do yourself and us a favour.
Isa 9:6
For unto us a [b]Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
I recognise and worship ONE God, who is ONE Saviour, and Lord of all. If you feel this premise is true then I ask you who is your Saviour? If you feel it's not true, then how many Saviours do you have?[/b]