13 Aug 19
@galveston75 saidThere are two kinds, born of water and born of the Spirit. To which do you refer.
I've got a question. How is one becoming born again decided? Simple question so try to keep it simple if you can....
13 Aug 19
@galveston75 saidIt is not decided, it is an experience.
I've got a question. How is one becoming born again decided? Simple question so try to keep it simple if you can....
14 Aug 19
@rajk999 saidWell both....
There are two kinds, born of water and born of the Spirit. To which do you refer.
14 Aug 19
@sonship saidJust curious as all here seem to have different views on this. If I give a rebuttal it will be with scriptures....
@galveston75
I've got a question. How is one becoming born again decided? Simple question so try to keep it simple if you can....
Try to "keep it simple" so you can line up your simple JW rebuttals that are ready in waiting ?
Why do you ask?
14 Aug 19
@galveston75 saidIt is the concept among mostly evangelicals and Protestants that one has to consciously realize and then actualize their Christianity and be baptized, at which point they have been born again.
I've got a question. How is one becoming born again decided? Simple question so try to keep it simple if you can....
It is an important theological concept within Protestantism.
In Orthodoxy & Catholicism, there is not such a concept. However, there is, of course, the theme of the prodigal son, and the notion that people who have been very wayward or led lives apart from the church returning. It is merely the case that they are not baptized again or anything.
The subsequent "baptisms" are the "baptism of tears," or Holy Confession.
@galveston75 saidBorn of water is baptism. It is an expression of faith in Christ and a putting on of Christ, a promise to God to live righteously and do good works and follow the commandments.. It is done at the discretion of the Christian. A man is saved from his sins at this point and washed clean. If all goes well the man lives with the hope of eternal life. Failure to live up to these promises to God can lead to eternal damnation.
Well both....
Born of the Spirit is regeneration. This happend at the rebirth at the coming of Christ when all the righteous will be changed.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
(John 3:6-8 KJV)
Nobody is yet born of the Spirit.
14 Aug 19
@galveston75 saidIt's something that some Christians declare about themselves when they decide to do so. There was a prominent Christian poster here throughout 2018 you declared himself "born again" and declared that his "salvation" was already irrevocably guaranteed and that if it wasn't it would "make God a liar".
I've got a question. How is one becoming born again decided? Simple question so try to keep it simple if you can....
He decided it. He decided to declare it. He decided to declare that it was guaranteed. He even declared that it mattered not whether he "sinned" or whether he tried to live a righteous life or whether he did any good works; all that stuff ~ whether it happened or not ~ was in the hands of "the indwelling Holy Spirit" and not him. He told himself it was so. So he declared it thus. It seems that it how it is decided.
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Just curious as all here seem to have different views on this. If I give a rebuttal it will be with scriptures....
You are reminding me of ThinkOfOne. He often argues that it is all about good reading comprehension. If you don't see it his heretical way, well, you just need to work on your reading skills.
To READ IT WELL is to AGREE with his philosophy. (I can't really call it theology becasue there is no Theos in it).
You come along " What is all the misunderstanding and different viewpoints. For 20 ceturies if they would have just come to me (or some Arian) we would have eliminated all confusion, all question, all ambiguity for them about the Bible."
You're "Hey, What's all the mystery about?" is really presumptuous and arrogantly self confident in your view.
If I engage you, I expect that you will dumb down the Bible to match your naturalistic understanding. Many of the same words will be used but your dictionary is anti-chirst.
That is not meant as an ad hom. I respect your temperament some. I think you make a go at reasonableness. But you come with "another Jesus".
And you will dumb down the whole New Testament to conform to your "another Jesus" - claiming that everybody "missed it".
You're going to try to feed me something other than the Son of God.
Born again is to receive another Person, another supernatural LIFE into your life which you did not have by your natural birth. It is Christ in His form as "[divine] life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45b) being joined to the innermost kernel of a person's spiritual being.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) .
It is to be FIRMLY attached to the anointed one and co-sharing in the anointing of God. That is the applying of His Holy Spirit.
" But the One who firmly attaches us with you unto Christ and has anointed us is God, He who has also sealed us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge." (2 Cor. 1:21,22)
14 Aug 19
@fmf saidYep I remember him.....
It's something that some Christians declare about themselves when they decide to do so. There was a prominent Christian poster here throughout 2018 you declared himself "born again" and declared that his "salvation" was already irrevocably guaranteed and that if it wasn't it would "make God a liar".
He decided it. He decided to declare it. He decided to declare that it was gu ...[text shortened]... and not him. He told himself it was so. So he declared it thus. It seems that it how it is decided.
@galveston75 saidThere are other Christians here who clearly agree with judging by the things they say about "salvation" and "grace" etc. and the way they did not confront him with any theological dissent despite his prolific posting on the issue. One poster even endorsed him explicitly.
Yep I remember him.....
14 Aug 19
@sonship said"You're "Hey, What's all the mystery about?" is really presumptuous and arrogantly self confident in your view."
@galveston75
Just curious as all here seem to have different views on this. If I give a rebuttal it will be with scriptures....
You are reminding me of ThinkOfOne. He often argues that it is all about good reading comprehension. If you don't see it his heretical way, well, you just need to work on your reading skills.
To READ IT WELL is to AGREE wi ...[text shortened]... has also sealed us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge." (2 Cor. 1:21,22) [/b] [/quote]
Well I don't think this comment was needed as I've never said anything like this to you, but oh well. You have your opinion of my beliefs and that's fine.
So I have no comment to you as that is your view.
@fmf saidUsually ones that deep into their beliefs or themselves comes across as "Holier-than-thou" to others. Not a good christian attitude.
There are other Christians here who clearly agree with judging by the things they say about "salvation" and "grace" etc. and the way they did not confront him with any theological dissent despite his prolific posting on the issue. One poster even endorsed him explicitly.
Signing off for a bit. Dinner time!!!!
14 Aug 19
@sonship saidTo galveston75: You come along " What is all the misunderstanding and different viewpoints. For 20 ceturies if they would have just come to me (or some Arian) we would have eliminated all confusion, all question, all ambiguity for them about the Bible." You're "Hey, What's all the mystery about?" is really presumptuous and arrogantly self confident in your view. If I engage you, I expect that you will dumb down the Bible to match your naturalistic understanding. Many of the same words will be used but your dictionary is anti-chirst. That is not meant as an ad hom. I respect your temperament some. I think you make a go at reasonableness. But you come with "another Jesus". And you will dumb down the whole New Testament to conform to your "another Jesus" - claiming that everybody "missed it". You're going to try to feed me something other than the Son of God.
@galveston75
It will be interesting to see if Philokalia comes along to dismiss your post for being "divisive". However, I don't think he will.