@philokalia saidYou are calling being born again a mind game that people play with themselves?
It is the concept among mostly evangelicals and Protestants that one has to consciously realize and then actualize their Christianity and be baptized, at which point they have been born again.
It is an important theological concept within Protestantism.
In Orthodoxy & Catholicism, there is not such a concept. However, there is, of course, the theme of the pr ...[text shortened]... in or anything.
The subsequent "baptisms" are the "baptism of tears," or Holy Confession.
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@rajk999 saidYour mouth worship is on full display once again. You really don't believe that Jesus came to save sinners, and sinners when they come to Christ can be born again right then and there? Your heart must be far from God to not only believe that, it must be hard towards God suggesting no one else came come to God for forgiveness and receive the Spirit of God in their lives at their conversion. You have read the book of Acts have you not, the scriptural record of people getting saved and receiving the Holy Spirit?
Born of water is baptism. It is an expression of faith in Christ and a putting on of Christ, a promise to God to live righteously and do good works and follow the commandments.. It is done at the discretion of the Christian. A man is saved from his sins at this point and washed clean. If all goes well the man lives with the hope of eternal life. Failure to live up to these ...[text shortened]... is every one that is born of the Spirit.
(John 3:6-8 KJV)[/i]
Nobody is yet born of the Spirit.
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Sorry but not exactly sure what you're saying here?
I think your reasons for not understanding are related to the indoctrination you have embraced and believed for a long time.
It is not easy to know where to start.
I show you the most relevant verses and you look at them like a man with a blindfold tightly wrapped around his eyes.
The last Adam became a life giving Spirit to you has nothing to do with Jesus Christ being the Holy Spirit or being in a form in which He can indwell the human spirit.
It doesn't surprise me then that you're not sure what the New Testament is saying -
"the Spirit [a Person] bears witness without our spirit ..."
Your JW training is a veil and hinders your belief. For you were taught that the Holy Spirit is just a force. The entire truth of the resurrected Jesus being available to be known intimately today is rejected in your preferred belief.
And other things you hold make it no surprise that you're not quite sure what I am saying. Including Christ not being God Himself, makes it hard for you to know what I am saying. You resist that, that Jesus Christ is God incarnate to be worshiped and to be received as the indwelling Lord in your heart.
It is no secret that the Jehovah's Witnesses are dedicated to the destruction of such a teaching. Of course being given to teach what they teach you're not sure what is being said in the New Testament about regeneration.
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@galveston75 said
I agree with Kelly. That scripture says nothing "about ceasing to sin."
Jesus provided an overview here:
John 8
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
31...“If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
His true disciples abide in His word and the truth makes them free from committing sin.
Jesus says that His true disciples are made free from committing sin. How does that "say nothing 'about ceasing to sin'"? His disciples are made free from committing sin, but don't cease to sin? How does that work exactly?
@sonship saidSorry friend I know exactly what the Bible says on this. No confusion at all.
@galveston75Sorry but not exactly sure what you're saying here?
I think your reasons for not understanding are related to the indoctrination you have embraced and believed for a long time.
It is not easy to know where to start.
I show you the most relevant verses and you look at them like a man with a blindfold tightly wrapped around his eyes.
...[text shortened]... to teach what they teach you're not sure what is being said in the New Testament about regeneration.
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So to see the Kingdom of God which is in heaven, what must happen in order to actually see it?
The prayer Christ taught said "Thy kingdom come" not "Thy kingdom go".
Rev. 11:15 , right ?
“The seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices shouting in heaven: 'The world has now become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever.'
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Sorry friend I know exactly what the Bible says on this. No confusion at all.
Then I assume you are ASKING about "Born again ???" (with three ?,) but really already believe that you know all about it.
You ask for debate or discussion purposes then, I assume.
I don't assume that though you know the letter of the Bible you really understand being born again.
If I recall correctly, you JWs relegate being born again to physical resurrection in the end times. Am I right that for your theology, this side of the resurrection at the second coming of Christ, no one has yet been "born again" ?
Isn't that what you're told to teach ?
@thinkofone saidYou are the one adding to the text.
[quote]Jesus provided an overview here:
John 8
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
31...“If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
His true disciples abide in His word and the truth makes them free from committing ...[text shortened]... His disciples are made free from committing sin, but don't cease to sin? How does that work exactly?
Jesus says that His true disciples are made free from committing sin. How does that "say nothing 'about ceasing to sin'"? His disciples are made free from committing sin, but don't cease to sin? How does that work exactly?
I think I will open up a thread dedicated to this, one of your favorite subjects. I will call it -
Discipleship and ceasing from sin.
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Nobody is yet born of the Spirit.
I have been born again. Millions have been born again in the church age.
Notice the PAST TENSE - "Having been regenerated ... " (See First Peter 1:23)
The audience Peter addresses as to their PAST have been born again -
"Having BEEN regenerated not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, through the living and abiding word of God."
Because the Christians Peter writes to HAVE BEEN born again - "having BEEN regenerated" he exhorts them to be as "new BORN babes"
"As newborn babes, long for the guileless milk of the word in order that by it you may grow unto salvation." (v.2)
Heretic Rajk999 teaches that no one has been born again.
Peter's audience are growing NEW BORN BABES. They are nourishing up their newborn spiritual life by the word of God.
James says his audience were BROUGHT FORTH of the Father -
"He brought us forth by the word of truth, purposing that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures." (James 1:18)