1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipAs I have always said, if "the Son of God and His teaching" gives you what you need - the notions and hopes you want and depend on - with regard to eternal life and all the rest, then enjoy it - along with the meaning and purpose and comfort it gives you. So why are you asking me for "something better"?
Regardless, do you have something better than the Son of God and His teaching ?
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFI think the supernatural lived on the earth for 33 and a half years a very normal life.
You seek to dismiss the word "supernatural" as being a "quip"?
Well, particularly the first 30 years before He embarked on His official ministry.
I think one of the unusual things about the life of Jesus of Nazareth was that for three decades He lived among fellow people in Nazareth without making a tumultuous sensation of it.
He was quite blending in with everyone else even though He was the Son of God.
Then at 30 years He stepped forward to preach.
He opened His mouth and spoke about how He Himself had lived all those years.
And He spoke with authority. He spoke about how He had moved in and out among other men and women in that town.
So "supernatural" is one part of the Christ legacy.
Quite splendid natural and normality is the other side of that coin.
Why should I be biased and only notice one side of a two sided matter?
Originally posted by sonshipBut how is the word "supernatural" a "quip"? Does your Jesus story work without the supernatural element ~ without him supposedly being God incarnate ~ without him supposedly forgiving the "sins" of all humans by arranging to have himself executed by the Romans ~ without him rising from the dead ~ without him ascending in heaven? Does the Jesus story work on any level without these supernatural elements? A "quip" you say?
I think the supernatural lived on the earth for 30 and a half years a very normal life.
I think one of the unusual things about the life of Jesus of Nazareth was that for three decades He lived among fellow people in Nazareth without making a tumultuous sensation of it.
He was quite blending in with everyone else even though He was the Son of God. ...[text shortened]... er side of that coin.
Why should I be biased and only notice one side of a two sided matter?
Originally posted by FMF
As I have always said, if "the Son of God and His teaching" gives you what you the notions and hopes want with regard to eternal life and all the rest, then enjoy it - and the meaning and purpose and comfort it gives you. So why are you asking me for "something better"?
So why are you asking me for "something better"?
Why not ?
You're critical enough. So in contrast to what ?
Nothing? Just critical for the sake of being critical ?
What a let down.
Oh, my hopes for enjoying "eternal life" encompass tonight and tomorrow morning.
I hope you don't mind if I enjoy God's life on any given Thursday afternoon too.
That's how its taught in the NT as well.
Sorry. Not just "pie in the sky" but "ham where we am."
Originally posted by sonshipThis doesn't answer the question: why are you asking me for "something better"?So why are you asking me for "something better"?
Why not ?
You're critical enough. So in contrast to what ?
Nothing? Just critical for the sake of being critical ?
What a let down.
Oh, my hopes for enjoying "eternal life" encompass tonight and tomorrow morning.
I hope you don't mind if I enjoy God's life on any given T ...[text shortened]... s how its taught in the NT as well.
Sorry. Not just "pie in the sky" but "ham where we am."
1 edit
Originally posted by FMF
Does your Jesus story work without the supernatural element ~ without him supposedly being God incarnate ~ without him supposedly forgiving the "sins" of all humans by arranging to have himself executed by the Romans ~ without him rising from the dead ~ without him ascending in heaven? Does the Jesus story work on any level without these supernatural elements? A "quip" you say?
That's a long question. But if the word "quip" is a real bother to you, maybe I'll think of another word.
"Beef?" "Objection?"
"Major obstacle?"
"Unsurmountable barrier ?"
" Total showstopper to believing the Bible?"
Does the Jesus story work on any level without these supernatural elements?
A resurrectionless Christ ?
Paul put it right.
"And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins."
Let's not kid ourselves. If the body of Jesus is ever produced that would be a total death blow to the entire Gospel message.
So says one who authored much of the New Testament - Paul.
" If it is only that we have hoped in Christ in this life, we are of all men most miserable."
The key word there is "only". We have hope in Him FOR this life and for the world to come.
Originally posted by sonshipDoes the Jesus story work on any level without these supernatural elements?
A resurrectionless Christ ?
Paul put it right.
[b] "And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins."
Let's not kid ourselves. If the body of Jesus is ever produced that would be a total de ...[text shortened]... he key word there is "only". We have hope in Him FOR this life and for the world to come.[/b]So the supernatural element is crucial. Essential. Fundamental. The entire basis of everything you believe, every single detail. So. It's certainly not a "quip" to mention it.
1 edit
Originally posted by FMF
You are quibbling the word supernatural disingenuously.
Here is a shorter version of the question:
Does your Jesus story work without the supernatural element ?
Does your Jesus story work without the supernatural element ?
No. Nor would it "work" without that portion in which He is the finest normal natural Man whoever lived.
The whole package is relevant.
John's burden to show He is God become a man is needed.
And Luke's burden to show He was the highest and most normal Man who ever lived on earth.
We need both. That's why we have four biographies there Matthew, Mark, Luke, John to each emphasize a certain different crucial angle of this wonderful Person.
Originally posted by FMF
[b]So the supernatural element is crucial. Essential. Fundamental.
Yes.
Crucial, essential, fundamental .... all that good stuff.
The entire basis of everything you believe, every single detail. So. It's certainly not a "quip" to mention it.
Change "quip" to "BIG DEAL PROBLEM".
Appreciating Jesus Christ in all that He is is important. Appreciating it all at once instantaneously is not necessarily crucial.
An ever unfolding exploration of how extensive and valuable this One is will take eternity.
No one has to master all these angles on the very first day he gets saved.
Originally posted by sonshipWe've been here before. This is one of your passive aggressive fallback positions. I have of course written thousands and thousands of posts on a whole range of issues and questions that pertain to the human condition that I believe are spiritual matters. You have chosen not to engage. That is fine by me. You have convinced yourself that you are immortal. There is no onus on me to supersede and replace the elaborate ideology that so excites your imagination in this way with "something (that you will think is) better".
Why not ?
Originally posted by sonshipDo you believe there is a way for someone to be a Christian without believing in the supernatural elements?[b]So the supernatural element is crucial. Essential. Fundamental.
Yes.
Crucial, essential, fundamental .... all that good stuff.
The entire basis of everything you believe, every single detail. So. It's certainly not a "quip" to mention it.
Change "quip" to "BIG DEAL PROBLEM".
Appreciating Jesus Christ ...[text shortened]... will take eternity.
No one has to master all these angles on the very first day he gets saved.
I am still trying to figure out why you wanted to dismiss the use of the word "supernatural".