Can Christian Saints be tormented eternally?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Apparently Sonship thinks so. He believes that anyone whose names are not written in the Book of Life is cast into the Lake of Fire, and they are tormented for all eternity.

Jesus says in Rev 3, that Christian saints who do not defile themselves and who overcome, those names will not be blotted out of the book of life.

So Christian saints who defile t ...[text shortened]... nd do not overcome, their names will be blotted out and they are going to face eternal torment.

Wow is this Global Fearmongering Day?

Originally posted by JS357
Wow is this Global Fearmongering Day?

The fear of the Lord is clean. Don't you know ?
The fear of the Lord is the hatred of evil.

So Mr. Macho has no fear of God ??
Maybe you have no hatred of your evil either.

Originally posted by sonship
Foolish one.

I said the SCOPE of the warning is wide enough to include whatever the Lord deems necessary.

In some extreme cases some will be hurt by the second death.
Those punished are said to be in the [b]"outer darkness".[/b]

Hurt by the second death? Are you changing your tune now? I though they were saved eternally.

The second death means they are DESTROYED PERMANENTLY.

The foolish one is the one who swallows false doctrines from the likes of fools like Watchman Nee.

JS357: Wow is this Global Fearmongering Day?

Originally posted by sonship
The fear of the Lord is clean. Don't you know ?
The fear of the Lord is the hatred of evil.

So Mr. Macho has no fear of God ??
Maybe you have no hatred of your evil either.

What "evil" has JS357 done?

Proverbs 9:10

New American Standard Bible
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Get started.

Originally posted by JS357
Wow is this Global Fearmongering Day?

Sonship believes in eternal torment .. not me.

Originally posted by sonship
The fear of the Lord is clean. Don't you know ?
The fear of the Lord is the hatred of evil.

So Mr. Macho has no fear of God ??
Maybe you have no hatred of your evil either.

I think it is ethically irresponsible to indiscriminately post fear messages on a public forum, when you can't be sure of who will read them and how they will react. Indeed I am in recovery from a fearmongering religion, pick on me personally, I can take it and call it what it is, an attempt at fearmongering under the guise of trying to save souls. Nice trick.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Sonship believes in eternal torment .. not me.

Be that as it may, but it's your OP.

Originally posted by JS357
Be that as it may, but it's your OP.

So? Can I not question sonships false doctrines without being harrassed by morons like you?

Originally posted by Rajk999

Hurt by the second death?

Revelation 2:11 spoken to the saints of the church in Smyrna.

Are you changing your tune now? I though they were saved eternally.

This warning includes latitude enough for the perfecting Father to use a wide range of disciplines.

" ... he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

Go back and find the thread I wrote a few years back on "the Gehenna of Fire".

I believe that in that thread I spoke to the MOST severe end of the possible disciplines to saved Christians. Some will be hurt by the second death.

The second death means they are DESTROYED PERMANENTLY.

Let's say a Christian refuses to depart from fornication.
The truth is that it is a sad fact of life.

To such a Christian who refuses to let the Lord sanctify him out of a fornicating lifestyle. he is in danger of being hurt by the fire.

Matt. 18:9

Berean Literal Bible
And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and cast it from you; it is better for you to enter into life one-eyed, than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire.

Matt. 5:29

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But if your right eye subverts you, pluck it out and cast it from you, for it is profitable for you that your one member be lost, and not that your whole body should fall into Gehenna.

This does not mean to literally pluck our your physical eyes. It does mean that the Christian should deal seriously with this sin down to the motive of it,

Such a sin has to be dealt with at all costs or this will be the more severe end of suffering loss and being saved yet so as through fire.

Seeing this we are forced to draw close to Jesus Christ in all seriousness for overcoming grace. The kingdom is a serious matter. The very motive of sinning has to be dealt with down to the root.

Once you see that you cannot make it apart from Christ you are well on your way.
And though you chide "mouth worship" you'll use your mouth to call on the Lord Jesus for grace, grace, grace to overcome.

The foolish one is the one who swallows false doctrines from the likes of fools like Watchman Nee.

You know sometimes I think God has even raised up people like you and RJHinds in order that the ministry of Watchman Nee and other overcoming teachers may be made more known.

I want to thank you for the opportunity you create to do more informing people of where very healthy teaching may be obtained.

Originally posted by sonship

Hurt by the second death?

[b]Revelation 2:11 spoken to the saints of the church in Smyrna.

Are you changing your tune now? I though they were saved eternally.

.[/b]

You are saying that God will force and drag these unworthy Christians into His Kingdom... Utter nonsense. God does not force people to live righteously. Living righteously must be voluntary ...VOLUNTARY .. THERE IS FREE WILL

How is it you cannot see all these elementary holes in your nonsense doctrine is amazing.

Originally posted by JS357

I think it is ethically irresponsible to indiscriminately post fear messages on a public forum,

I think it is irresponsible to not (without bias) cover varied aspects of the truth taught in the New Testament.

I have written pages upon pages of explanations of God's economy. I have written post after post about God's plan to dispense Himself into man and mass produce sons of God.

In this post some attention needs to be given to something that rightly gives arise to sense of warning. It would be irresponsible to neglect it when the subject matter calls for it.

Your criticism is akin to accusing fear mongering of warning people on the Titanic that shortly the whole ship will be under the icy waters and drowning will surely take place.
"Stop that fearmongering !!"


Come on JS357. Surely even you noticed that Ecclesiastes said there is a TIME for every matter under heaven - a TIME for this and a TIME for that.

This thread is a TIME for discussing reward and punishment, discipline and being perfected in holiness, consequences in following Christ as His disciple.

This thread is a TIME for dealing with passages about these things.
Rajk999 initiated it with an attack on my teaching about the Christian life.

when you can't be sure of who will read them and how they will react. Indeed I am in recovery from a fearmongering religion, pick on me personally, I can take it and call it what it is, an attempt at fearmongering under the guise of trying to save souls. Nice trick.

You can always go on to thread which you find more profitable.
This thread has to deal with consequences positive and negative for being a "kingdom" person.

I have spent hours on other subjects. I don't recall you being more amiable when I was discussing less alarming matters.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So? Can I not question sonships false doctrines without being harrassed by morons like you?

Wow that escalated fast.

Originally posted by sonship

I think it is ethically irresponsible to indiscriminately post fear messages on a public forum,

I think it is irresponsible to not (without bias) cover varied aspects of the truth taught in the New Testament.

I have written pages upon pages of explanations of God's economy. I have written post after post about God's plan to dispense ...[text shortened]... her subjects. I don't recall you being more amiable when I was discussing less alarming matters.

I generally don't read your posts.

Originally posted by JS357
I think it is ethically irresponsible to indiscriminately post fear messages on a public forum, when you can't be sure of who will read them and how they will react. Indeed I am in recovery from a fearmongering religion, pick on me personally, I can take it and call it what it is, an attempt at fearmongering under the guise of trying to save souls. Nice trick.

There are all kinds of debates and approaches used in public debates and they all can be
handled a number of different ways. I was told I was for the death of children here, and
having lost a child I'd never wish that on anyone, yet some say it and still are. I was told
that they didn't even care I lost a child. So I no longer respond to them after asking them
to stop saying that.

Everyone here is dealing with issues, and if reactions are to be feared, then the internet
is not the place to go. People are can be very mean and vile!

I do believe in God's grace and mercy, His loving kindness and it is beyond good, and I
also believe that God's wrath is as bad as His loving kindness is good. I don't believe He
mixes the two, if you get one that is all you get. So if you receive God's grace than it is
totally free of guilt, shame, condemnation, and if you receive God's wrath it is filled with
just that.