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Originally posted by Rajk999
Jesus says the unprofitable servant is cast into the eternal fire.
Where does it say that? It does not say that.
It says that an unprofitable servant was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Now, concerning the furnace of fire the same phrase is used "weeping and gnashing of teeth"
But it is an assumption on the part of some readers that the furnace of fire must therefore be the outer darkness. But there can be unpleasantness associated with temporary discipline as well. And that the Lord Jesus used the same phrase does not have to mean that He spoke of the same destiny.
Now we compare the two passages and their use of the phrase "weeping and gnashing of teeth"
"For everyone who has, more shall be given, and he shall abound; but from him who does not have, even that which he has shall be taken away from him.
And cast out the useless slave into the outer darkness, In that place there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 25:29,30)
Now a similar passage about false Christians.
"The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those who practice lawlessness, And will cast them into the furnace of fire.
In that place there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 13:41,42)
Now granted - the frightful expression is the same in both instances - "weeping and gnashing of teeth".
But former case of the unprofitable servant has to receive this discipline at the judgment seat of Christ. No unbelievers are qualified to come before the judgment seat Christ. That is for His household. Judgment begins at the house of God.
It cannot be argued that the unprofitable servant serves one whom he does not recognize as his Master.
It cannot be argued that the unprofitable servant comes along with the two other profitable servants to be rewarded or punished by Christ.
The judgment seat of Christ for Christ's servants takes place in the air BEFORE Jesus comes down to earth. The proof of this is that those who accompany Him on His way down are those REWARDED. So those designated for discipline are so BEFORE Christ descends with those overcomers who are to be rewarded to co-fight and co-reign with Him. See Revelation 19.
Rewards or disciplines are dispensed by Jesus Christ in the air BEFORE He descends down to the battle of Armageddon with those whom He rewards to accompany Him and reign with Him. See Revelation 19.
Now in the case of the false believers cast into the furnace of fire, they have to be on the earth and not in the air or heaven. The reason for this is that it says -
"The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will collect OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all the stumbling blocks and those who practice lawlessness. ... Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
This all pertains to activity happening UPON THE EARTH. The angels are sent to the earth. Out of His kingdom on the earth that He now comes to reign over, they collect the false tares (verses 27,28) . Since it pertains to the kingdom on the earth it has to be after He descends down to the earth.
This has to be brief. One passage pertains to "the outer darkness". The other passage pertains to "the furnace of fire."
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The Lord Jesus will come to the earth and the sphere of His reigning will be glorious and full of light.
To be OUT of that situation and AWAY from that realm is to be in the outer darkness.
More specifics on this we are not told.
The outer darkness is a realm of discipline for the unprofitable and unmerciful servants of the Lord - outside of the lightened sphere of His reign on the earth.
No Christian should despair. It should be remembered that we all fail. But there is still mercy to him who shows mercy.
"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall be shown mercy." (Matt. 5:7)
Mercy triumphs over judgment. (James 2:13) Even at the judgment seat of Christ for the saved there may be mercy.
Remember that O Christian when you are offended by others, especially others of the household of faith. But to others in general it also applies.
The merciful in the name of the Lord Jesus, will obtain mercy.
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29 May 17
Originally posted by sonshipIs that a yes or a no?
Did you ever notice that sometimes they asked Jesus a question and He seemed not to answer it exactly according to their expectation?
IE. Will there be few or many who will be saved ?
Rather than giving statistics He taught them HOW they should enter.
Percentages is what they wanted. Directions on HOW to enter is what He gave them.
i answered y ...[text shortened]... ntend to debate with you the weight of the book of life or the temperature of the lake of fire.
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29 May 17
Originally posted by sonshipSo there are some (sometimes) of your posts which people here should learn from and others you make, which you don't expect them to learn from?
Sometimes....
You really are one of the most sanctimonious self-important Christians I've ever come across.
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29 May 17
Originally posted by divegeesterWhat else should I compare my ministering with ?
Are you seriously comparing your posting here to Jesus's ministry?
What else should ANY Christian compare his service to God with ?
I do not co-participate in Christ's work of redemption.
That is uniquely His work.
But Paul said he filled up what was lacking of the afflictions of Christ for the sake of His Body. So Paul, and by comparison every serving saints, does the same.
" I rejoice in my sufferings on your behalf and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for His Body, which is the church." (Col. 1:24)
"PAUL !!! Are you comparing your ministry with that of Jesus Christ ???"
"Uh.... Yea."
You mean you didn't read that as the Father sent Him He also sent the disciples ?
"Then Jesus said to them again. Peace be to you; as the Father has sent me, I also send you." (John 20:21)
"Sonship, are you SO presumptuous as to compare your ministry to that of Jesus Christ ???"
As a Christian .... I BETTER!.
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Christ returns to earth. But the eternal age does not begin immediately.
At least one thousand years proceed it.
"A thousand years" - mentioned once - (Revelation 20:2.)
"[T]he thousand years" - mentioned a second time - (20:3) .
"[A] thousand years" - mentioned the third time - (20:4).
"[T]he thousand years" - mentioned the fourth time - (20;5).
"[A] thousand years" - mentioned the fifth time - (20:6).
'[T]he thousand years" - mentioned the sixth time - (20:7)
During that time overcomers will be rewarded.
Defeated saints will be disciplined and perfected.
By the END of the thousand years ALL of God's children by that time have been fully matured.
So the common portion of GIFT of the eternal age of the new heaven and new earth is obtained.
All of the rewards and disciplines mentioned to the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 mostly pertain to this one thousand year "vestibule" or introductory time to the new heaven and new earth of eternity in Revelation 21 and 22.
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Originally posted by divegeesterThis discussion is about this question:
Do you expect peopl to be fearful of being burnt alive for eternity by your version of Jesus?
Can Christian Saints be tormented eternally?"
My writing is in the negative.
My writing also is careful to indicate that this does not mean a Christian cannot be punished.
If I just respond "No" then Rajk999 will accuse me of teaching a sloppy and loose exploitation of grace in order to continue sinning as a Christian.
Ironically he will do that ANYWAY regardless because he is a "one note" piano player.
Some sobering things have to be said in this thread in order to deal with the subject matter. And typically you come along and hammer down on YOUR one note, your hatred for the teaching of eternal perdition.
I think both of you are myopic and tunnel visioned on your respective pet peeves.
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Originally posted by sonshipSo your response is yes, you compare your responses in here, your dodging and equivocation, with the sublimely nuanced responses of Jesus.
What else should I compare my ministering with ?
What else should ANY Christian compare his service to God with?
Unbelievable arrogance.
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29 May 17
Originally posted by sonshipIs that a yes or a no?
This discussion is about this question:
[b]Can Christian Saints be tormented eternally?"
My writing is in the negative.
My writing also is careful to indicate that this does not mean a Christian cannot be punished.
If I just respond "No" then Rajk999 will accuse me of teaching a sloppy and loose exploitation of grace in order to continue sinn ...[text shortened]... perdition.
I think both of you are myopic and tunnel visioned on your respective pet peeves.[/b]
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Originally posted by divegeester
Do you expect peopl to be fearful of being burnt alive for eternity by your version of Jesus?
Do you expect peopel to be fearful of being burnt alive for eternity by your version of Jesus?
This thread is about "Can Christian Saints be tormented eternally?"
I expect human beings to take heed to the words of the Son of God (ALL the words) including His teaching about WHO we should fear.
I did not say that that is His SOLE and ONLY teaching.
But it is a part of all His words.
"But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after killing, has authority to cast into Gehenna; YES, I TELL YOU, FEAR THIS ONE." (Luke 12:5)
These words came out of the same mouth .... the same mouth who spoke to the world the most comforting words of grace, forgiveness, pardon, longsuffering and sympathy for sinners, sympathy for offenders and transgressors against God.
The SAME Person spoke such awesome words of mercy and severity.
Now if you think I interpret those words wrongly you have that right.
You can teach strongly that there is no authority on God's part OR desire to punish the lost and irreconcilable rebel forever.
I suggest that if you start a thread and make that case, and after 100 posts you'll find that the career unbelievers on this Forum will show you no more regard than me who says the words are to be feared.
I have yet to see any hard core atheist change his contempt for God and the Gospel of Christ because someone pleaded with them that eternal damnation has no part in the New Testament.
Probably, they will hold you in even more contempt because they sense that you are trying to water down something which is indisputably unpleasant to read in the Bible.
Jesus spoke those fearful words. They were not shoe horned into the Greek NT latter by mean people.
Wonderfully, He also spoke many many words of hope and assurance of safety in Him.
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29 May 17
Originally posted by sonshipYou've answered the same post twice instead of clarifying whether or not you feel people should be fearful of your version of Jesus burning them alive for eternity.Do you expect peopel to be fearful of being burnt alive for eternity by your version of Jesus?
This thread is about [b]"Can Christian Saints be tormented eternally?"
I expect human beings to take heed to the words of the Son of God (ALL the words) including His teaching about WHO we should fear.
I did not say that that is His S ...[text shortened]... people.
Wonderfully, He also spoke many many words of hope and assurance of safety in Him.[/b]
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Originally posted by divegeesterThe subject here is Can Christian Saints be tormented eternally? .
How magnanimous of you to feel that you have to state this.
I argue NO on that because of the assurance of eternal redemption.
I consider that I will come before Christ one day and have to give an account for what I taught.
This is as real to me as K parking.
Jesus will say "Sonship, what did you live? What did you teach? What did you minister in My name? How did you minister? With what spirit did you minister? "
So I take what I write quite seriously.
Can you imagine standing before the One Who lives IN YOU ??