Capital Punishment

Originally posted by @suzianne
Did Charles Manson ever find salvation while he "walked the earth"? Do you think he was worthy of it? Then why didn't he find it?

Sometimes a waste of time is just a waste of time.

Do you think one can only come to the knowledge of Christ and accept Him if God draws him or her?

Originally posted by @fmf
...
What do Christians and non-Christians make of the details of the above argumentation and resolution ~ and of the question: Do you support the use of capital punishment in a secular [non-theocratic] society?

Something about killing prisoners doesn't feel right. And we don't need to do that anymore, do we?

Originally posted by @suzianne
Did Charles Manson ever find salvation while he "walked the earth"? Do you think he was worthy of it? Then why didn't he find it?

Sometimes a waste of time is just a waste of time.

Not sure what to make of this.

Evidently you don't believe that Charles Manson ever found salvation, wasn't worthy of it, don't know why he didn't find it and believe not killing him was a "waste of time".

This doesn't address my question which was, "How exactly are you able to JUDGE with absolute certainty that any given individual is 'beyond salvation'"?

Your point seems to be that all individuals should be judged based on what Charles Manson did or didn't do - which of course is just nonsense.

The fact is that you can't determine beforehand that a given individual is "beyond salvation".

Clearly in your case what Jesus had to say regarding "do not judge", "do not condemn", etc., has fallen on deaf ears as has the following:

Matthew 9
12But when Jesus heard this, He said, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. 13“But go and learn what this means: ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Luke 15
1Now all the tax collectors and the sinners were coming near Him to listen to Him. 2Both the Pharisees and the scribes began to grumble, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.” 3So He told them this parable, saying, 4“What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5“When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6“And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7“I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

John 8
3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]

Originally posted by @suzianne
Did Charles Manson ever find salvation while he "walked the earth"? ...

Manson didn't kill anyone. What? He didn't!

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Not sure what to make of this.

Evidently you don't believe that Charles Manson ever found salvation, wasn't worthy of it, don't know why he didn't find it and believe not killing him was a "waste of time".

This doesn't address my question which was, "How exactly are you able to JUDGE with absolute certainty that any given individual is 'beyond salv ...[text shortened]... d, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]

<<Clearly in your case what Jesus had to say regarding "do not judge", "do not condemn", etc., has fallen on deaf ears as has the following:>>

Do you apply this to yourself and rajk? Or art thou a hypocrite as were the Pharisees?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
“I believe that more people would be alive today if there were a death penalty.”

Nancy Reagan

The death penalty doesn’t serve as a deterrent to committing murder due to the lengthy appeals process, which is not always justified.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
It is true that I can only speak from my personal context, though would imagine an innocent person being put to death is a bad thing in any country.

Innocent people are put to death daily in almost every country: By terrorists, lunatics and criminals.

Human nature demands demonstrated consequences. I favor public executions for murderers convicted by evidence and judged guilty by a jury of their peers.

DNA testing and today's advanced forensic science should relieve the conscience of those worried about the exceptions...rather than those innocently suffering from criminality's evil rule.

Originally posted by @wolfe63
Innocent people are put to death daily in almost every country: By terrorists, lunatics and criminals.

Human nature demands demonstrated consequences. I favor public executions for murderers convicted by evidence and judged guilty by a jury of their peers.

DNA testing and today's advanced forensic science should relieve the conscience of those worried about the exceptions...rather than those innocently suffering from criminality's evil rule.

Innocent people are put to death daily in almost every country: By terrorists, lunatics and criminals

And it's called murder. In your mind this justifies the killing of innocents by the government?

Human nature demands demonstrated consequences. I favor public executions for murderers convicted by evidence and judged guilty by a jury of their peers.

Seriously?

DNA testing and today's advanced forensic science should relieve the conscience of those worried about the exceptions...rather than those innocently suffering from criminality's evil rule.

You're delusional if you believe that no innocents are killed by the government - "advanced forensic science" notwithstanding.
The important thing is that YOUR conscience is clear. As for the innocents that are killed by the government - that's not an issue.

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No. While technically it may be "legal" in many states, capital punishment amounts to government sanctioned murder of a human being.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

<<“As the deadly chemicals were being administered, she praised Jesus Christ, licked her lips,
looked at the ceiling, and hummed.">>

That’s the peace that passeth all understanding.

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This belief may be based upon a Biblical 'eye-for-an-eye' principle of retribution.

Matthew 5
38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person...

It may be "Biblical", but it depends on which parts of the Bible people pick-and-choose from. Unfortunately it would seem that many Christians do not pick-and-choose the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.