Casual dishonesty™

Originally posted by @philokalia
I believe that Christians can believe both things. There is a good argument to be made for either position.

Personally, I support the death penalty, but I am not fanatical about my support of it.

Originally posted by @divegeester
It is clearly Jesus himself saying the opposite of what you are saying.

Perhaps you can explain how Jesus words in that text are “self-serving mush”??

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
What is your 'good argument' in support of the death penalty? (Bearing in mind such biblical passages as 'Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.' )

'1. Most attempts to make a biblical case for the support of capital punishment are arguments primarily based on Old Testament law, and that’s a poor way to do Christian theology.

Get frustrated when someone challenges you on an argument you’re making from the Old Testament when they ask you if you eat shell fish, or are wearing a cotton and polyester blend? You should — they’re correctly pointing out that most theological arguments based on Old Testament verses require cherry picking and inconsistency. As Christians in 2014, we are part of the New Testament church, not ancient Israel. Lifting a few of the Laws of Moses while ignoring the vast majority of the rest is inconsistent at best and hypocritical at worst. Most who use this tactic also ignore the whole of OT teaching on the issue by conveniently forgetting that capital punishment could not be applied without two eye witnesses (Deut 17:6), and forgetting that even bankers were considered detestable and ordered to be put to death (Ez 18:13). However, if one insists on building a case for supporting executions from the Old Testament, we find an inconvenient truth (sorry, Al) in the teachings of Jesus:

2. Jesus overturned the Old Testament law that allowed retributive violence.

I remember learning about the death penalty as a child and the first thing I was taught was that the Bible says “an eye for an eye.” This principle of an eye for an eye (something that many scholars believe at the time was designed to reduce violence by limiting it to a proportional response) is called the “Lex Talionis.” What I find most peculiar with this argument, was that I was never taught that Jesus very explicitly went on the record in telling his followers to no longer obey the Lex Talionis:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.” Matthew 5:38-42

So yes, it is true the Old Testament allowed capital punishment and retributive violence. Jesus however, weighed in as disagreeing with this principle — or at a minimum, instructing that it should no longer be observed. Therefore, it is not possible to argue a Christian case in support of the death penalty while citing passages from the Hebrew scriptures, because this will put one at odds with Jesus himself.

3. During his ministry, Jesus publicly thwarted an execution.

Let’s be honest: if you were to say “he who is without sin may cast the first stone” even the most ardent atheist would know what you were referencing: the fact that Jesus stopped an execution. Conservatives will break with literalism when it comes to this passage and will argue that it doesn’t mean what it seems to mean. But why not just take the teachings of Jesus at face value? The fact that Jesus stopped an execution is completely in line will all of his other prohibitions against the use of violence. When Jesus said “he who is without sin may cast the first stone” he was teaching that while death may seem just, and even at times be just, there isn’t anyone alive who is worthy to tie the noose around their neck. Therefore, even if siding with the rationale that death is a just punishment in some cases, we arrive at the difficult truth that — according to Jesus — neither you or I are perfect enough to serve in the role of executioner.'


https://sojo.net/articles/5-reasons-why-jesus-people-ought-oppose-death-penalty

Originally posted by @fmf
[quote]WHEREAS, The Bible teaches that every human life has sacred value (Genesis 1:27) and forbids the taking of innocent human life (Exodus 20:13); and

WHEREAS, God has vested in the civil magistrate the responsibility of protecting the innocent and punishing the guilty (Romans 13:1-3); and

WHEREAS, We recognize that fallen human nature has made imposs ...[text shortened]... he question: Do you support the use of capital punishment in a secular [non-theocratic] society?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
'1. Most attempts to make a biblical case for the support of capital punishment are arguments primarily based on Old Testament law, and that’s a poor way to do Christian theology.

Get frustrated when someone challenges you on an argument you’re making from the Old Testament when they ask you if you eat shell fish, or are wearing a cotton and poly ...[text shortened]... ecutioner.'


https://sojo.net/articles/5-reasons-why-jesus-people-ought-oppose-death-penalty

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Originally posted by @whodey
I get tired of people preaching to me that there is separation of church and state on such issues as abortion, because the answer is obvious, and those who support abortion don't want to discuss how Jesus would respond. But when it comes to capital punishment, these same people have the nerve to ask if Jesus would spare those on death row like he did the wo ...[text shortened]... It's all about manipulating one's emotions and unclear theological positions for one's benefit.

Originally posted by @romans1009
It’s particularly hilarious - and quite disingenuous - when atheists do it. To them, the Bible’s a book of useless fairy tales - unless they can use it for their own purposes or to bludgeon a Christian. Then, in those instances, the Bible is suddenly authoritative (though atheists usually wind up misunderstanding it.)

Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
"Reductio" type arguments aren't necessarily disingenuous. They are a common method of logical argumentation.

Originally posted by @suzianne
Or, alternatively, you could, you know, actually answer the question posed to you.

Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
"Reductio" type arguments aren't necessarily disingenuous. They are a common method of logical argumentation.

Originally posted by @romans1009
“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”

(Romans 12:19)

This is telling an offended individual not to take the law into his own hands. It does not speak to capital punishment administered by a government.