1. Standard memberRajk999
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    22 Apr '14 16:49
    A thread devoted to cherrypicking. Feel free to list those statements which I make that include cherrypicking [I dont mind at all].



    Here is a popular one from the 'once saved always saved' gang.

    1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
    1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
    1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


    This verse is used by them to prove that ALL Christians will get eternal life. Some will get a great reward and some will get a small reward and some will get 'burned' and will be punished but will still get eternal life. Nobody will lose their eternal life among this group of Christians.

    First the context, Paul is writing to the preachers and pastors, ministers ie the leaders of the churches that lead the flock:

    1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
    1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
    1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.


    Paul is saying that every man will be rewarded for his own labour. Apparently there were divisions among the people about whose preaching got the credit [in terms of Gods reward] for the increase in the numbers of the church.

    But here is the part that these OSAS people ignore. Paul was very clear a couple verses down that there are some Christians who will NOT GET ETERNAL LIFE AS GOD WILL DESTROY THEM,..

    1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


    So the whole story without cherrypicking is:

    - Some will get a big reward due to their hard work + eternal life
    - some will get a small reward + eternal life
    - some will get no reward + eternal life
    - some will be destroyed.

    All are Christians. All are saints in the Church.

    OSAS - another dangerous fallacy and which can find Biblical support only by extensive cherrypicking.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    25 Apr '14 12:331 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    A thread devoted to cherrypicking. Feel free to list those statements which I make that include cherrypicking [I dont mind at all].



    Here is a popular one from the 'once saved always saved' gang.

    [i]1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every ...[text shortened]... - another dangerous fallacy and which can find Biblical support only by extensive cherrypicking.
    This verse is used by them to prove that ALL Christians will get eternal life. Some will get a great reward and some will get a small reward and some will get 'burned' and will be punished but will still get eternal life. Nobody will lose their eternal life among this group of Christians.

    First the context, Paul is writing to the preachers and pastors, ministers ie the leaders of the churches that lead the flock:



    First the passage about being saved yet so as through fire is not definite enough for us to attach specific details to it.

    We do know that whatever Paul means it will be a suffering of loss and not pleasant.

    Secondly, the warning applies not just to leaders of the churches, and not the clergy / laity hierarchical structures which you attach to it out of tradition. It applies to every member of the church, which is all believers.

    You are imposing your assumptions about the clerical system or a traditional clergy / laity religious organizational practice into the passage.

    Yes the chapters does speak about the laborers on God's farm. And we may assume apostles like Paul are intended. Paul says he lays a foundation and other build upon it.

    So it is not only the "wise master builder[s]" who lay the local church's foundation (Jesus Christ) that will be examined. Rather every believer in the structure on the foundation building. And that is ALL believers who constitute building.

    Elsewhere we are told that the Body of Christ builds up itself in love (Eph. 4:16). So every member of the Body of Christ is a builder. And every participant in the local assembly is a builder on the churches foundation.

    Paul's phrase " ... in the measure of each one part, causes the growth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love" proves that all the members of the Body of Christ are builders. And all will be examined as to the quality of the building materials they provide to the Lord's church.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    25 Apr '14 22:15
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    A thread devoted to cherrypicking. Feel free to list those statements which I make that include cherrypicking [I dont mind at all].



    Here is a popular one from the 'once saved always saved' gang.

    [i]1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every ...[text shortened]... - another dangerous fallacy and which can find Biblical support only by extensive cherrypicking.
    1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


    The 17th verse is a continuation of the explanation of the previous explanations about reward, lose of reward, and being saved yet so as through fire. Since he has already told us that the disciplined ones are saved the destruction as a discipline in verse 17 cannot be eternal punishment.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    25 Apr '14 23:551 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


    The 17th verse is a continuation of the explanation of the previous explanations about reward, lose of reward, and being ...[text shortened]... ones are [b]saved
    the destruction as a discipline in verse 17 cannot be eternal punishment.[/b]
    Correcting typos:

    The 17th verse is a continuation of the explanation of the previous passages about reward, loss of reward, and being saved yet so as through fire. Since he has already told us that the disciplined ones are saved the destruction as a discipline in verse 17 cannot be eternal punishment.
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 Apr '14 13:03
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    A thread devoted to cherrypicking. Feel free to list those statements which I make that include cherrypicking [I dont mind at all].



    Here is a popular one from the 'once saved always saved' gang.

    [i]1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every ...[text shortened]... - another dangerous fallacy and which can find Biblical support only by extensive cherrypicking.
    Everyone who wants to make a point will cherry pick the scriptures they
    believe will help them in their point. You do it all the time! As soon as you
    picked the scriptures in your post to prove a point you did it.

    The sad thing is yours typically do not edify, they do not build up others,
    they basically tear down others.

    Why not from time to time do this, I cherry picked just for you!?

    Philippians 4:8
    Brothers and sisters, think about the things that are good and worthy of praise. Think about the things that are true and honorable and right and pure and beautiful and respected.
    Kelly
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    27 Apr '14 17:52
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Everyone who wants to make a point will cherry pick the scriptures they
    believe will help them in their point. You do it all the time! As soon as you
    picked the scriptures in your post to prove a point you did it.

    The sad thing is yours typically do not edify, they do not build up others,
    they basically tear down others.

    Why not from time to time d ...[text shortened]... ut the things that are true and honorable and right and pure and beautiful and respected.
    Kelly
    It is true we are to build up our brothers and sisters in the Lord, but understanding the scripture is also important. Even if it means admonishing someone close. Example, Paul did this to Peter in correcting him. I believe it was in Acts.

    In the concept of understanding scripture, know that it is important to be able to use 2, 3, or more verses to set a point down. In my own typing here, I use scripture constantly, and it may be a single verse. But I also know if I have to, I can go into the scripture and find a few more that will back what I've said origionaly.
  7. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    27 Apr '14 21:34
    http://www.weldingnorthwales.co.uk/page/low_loader_and_cherry_picker_hire
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Apr '14 09:48
    Originally posted by sonship
    [quote] This verse is used by them to prove that ALL Christians will get eternal life. Some will get a great reward and some will get a small reward and some will get 'burned' and will be punished but will still get eternal life. Nobody will lose their eternal life among this group of Christians.

    First the context, Paul is writing to the preachers and pas ...[text shortened]... will be examined as to the quality of the building materials they provide to the Lord's church.
    None of your explanations can contradict the clear statement that God will destroy certain Christians whose sins are so grevious that He has decided not to forgive them. The Bible is clear. Maybe you should consider the remote possibility that Christ and the Apostles are greater authorities than you are.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Apr '14 09:52
    Originally posted by Pudgenik
    It is true we are to build up our brothers and sisters in the Lord, but understanding the scripture is also important. Even if it means admonishing someone close. Example, Paul did this to Peter in correcting him. I believe it was in Acts.

    In the concept of understanding scripture, know that it is important to be able to use 2, 3, or more verses to set a ...[text shortened]... ve to, I can go into the scripture and find a few more that will back what I've said origionaly.
    Correct. Understanding what gives eternal life is something that many seem to miss. Gods grace gives eternal life. Who gets Gods grace ? Certainly not everyone who says 'Lord Lord !', but those who DO THE WILL OF GOD.

    Many here teach and believe these unBiblical doctrines:
    - accept Christ with your mouth alone and you are saved
    - once you are saved you cannot lose your salvation
    - all sins are covered [still dont know what that means]

    These are contrary to the substance of the teachings of Christ.
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Apr '14 09:53
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Everyone who wants to make a point will cherry pick the scriptures they
    believe will help them in their point. You do it all the time! As soon as you
    picked the scriptures in your post to prove a point you did it.

    The sad thing is yours typically do not edify, they do not build up others,
    they basically tear down others.

    Why not from time to time d ...[text shortened]... ut the things that are true and honorable and right and pure and beautiful and respected.
    Kelly
    I would be very happy if you can tell me exactly what you think I am 'tearing down'.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 Apr '14 10:46
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I would be very happy if you can tell me exactly what you think I am 'tearing down'.
    You've done it to me, when you make claims that I ignore or do not accept
    certain scriptures. Which has never been true when you make those claims.
    As I pointed out to you, I don't think I have ever seen you encourage
    another here.
    Kelly
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Apr '14 10:562 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    You've done it to me, when you make claims that I ignore or do not accept
    certain scriptures. Which has never been true when you make those claims.
    As I pointed out to you, I don't think I have ever seen you encourage
    another here.
    Kelly
    Many here believe these :
    - accept Christ with your mouth alone and you are saved
    - once you are saved you cannot lose your salvation
    - all sins are covered [still dont know what that means]

    If these are what you accept which I think you said you did [not all but partially], then you do not accept the scriptures which contradict the above doctrines. I pointed out these to you and you did not accept them. Howefer all these doctrines do is to 'ENCOURGE ANOTHER' TO CONTINUE ON WITH SIN. And thats the road to death and destruction.

    What I do is simply copy and paste the words of Christ and the Apostles. If that is what you refer to as 'not encouraging another', then so be it.

    Im not here to encourge people to continue on with a sinful wordly lifestyle. My aim is to point people to the teachings of Christ. If you dont like what Christ said then Im pretty sure you will get an opportunity to take that up with Him personally .. 🙂
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 Apr '14 12:27
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Many here believe these :
    - accept Christ with your mouth alone and you are saved
    - once you are saved you cannot lose your salvation
    - all sins are covered [still dont know what that means]

    If these are what you accept which I think you said you did [not all but partially], then you do not accept the scriptures which contradict the above doctrines. ...[text shortened]... t said then Im pretty sure you will get an opportunity to take that up with Him personally .. 🙂
    Christians are those that belong to Christ, not those that mouth the words
    in my opinion. They will in the end on judgment day have their names in
    the Book of Life. All of them will have all of their sins covered, if you don't
    know what that means, what do you know? I don't know what many here
    believe, I will not put words in their mouths telling what they believe.

    You copy and paste scripture, big deal, a lot of people here do that to make
    their points. My desire is to grow closer to Christ each day of my life, and
    that does not include allowing sin to remain in my life, I shun it as best I
    can. I've not seen anyone you debate here who claims to be a Christian
    suggest we should continue on with sin! If it is there, I've not seen it.

    You are also doing it again, if I disagree with you I disagree with Christ! I
    study God's Word daily, I go it for truth, and you'll never see me say that
    if you disagree with me you are disagreeing with God. I love what Christ
    says and what He did, His Words are Truth and Life to me. Disagreeing with
    you is not disagreeing with Him, any more than disagreeing with me is!

    I'd also point out we are to point people to Christ, not just 'teachings'!
    Kelly
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Apr '14 15:22
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Christians are those that belong to Christ, not those that mouth the words
    in my opinion. They will in the end on judgment day have their names in
    the Book of Life. All of them will have all of their sins covered, if you don't
    know what that means, what do you know? I don't know what many here
    believe, I will not put words in their mouths telling what t ...[text shortened]... with me is!

    I'd also point out we are to point people to Christ, not just 'teachings'!
    Kelly
    Rajk999 is obviously not a Christian.
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Apr '14 20:00
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Rajk999 is obviously not a Christian.
    Yep .. like how the Earth was obviously created is 6, 24 hour periods.
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