Cherrypickers

Originally posted by KellyJay
So you don't think getting God's Spirit means you are right with God?
Kelly

Well definitely not. To me getting Gods Spirit means you are chosen to have a better chance than most to be right with God. It does not mean that you automatically are right with God.

I find this incredible that Christians with one mouth talk of 'free will' [which all people have whether or not they are Christians], and with the other side of their mouth claim that they cannot sin. I really cannot understand that. If you cannot sin then you dont have free will. I can find Bible verse to support that as well. Everyone can choose.

The Apostles are clear about what you ask. Anyone converted or otherwise, with or without the 'Spirit', can and do sin, can and do fall away. There are examples in the Bible of some who did and the consequences.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)

No amount of twisting these passages to mean something else can change the meaning.

Clearly some sin and repent and are forgiven. Some sin and fall away and God does not forgive and destroys them. The Bible is clear and there are several other passsages which say the same thing. To claim that all sin is forgiven is really unBiblical and just fooling oneself.

Originally posted by sonship

The problem is that your doctrine takes what does not belong to you as yet.

No. I know eternal life is mine. And when I lead someone to the Lord Jesus I make sure they have that assurance.

Why? Because the very [b]FIRST thing the enemy of God will do to attack the newborn Christian is to condemn them that they could not possibly ...[text shortened]... his, even though Christ warned that sometimes we may make a mistake.

www.localchurches.org[/b]

Very well stated Sonship...it is sad that so many Christians live their lives trying to "earn" God's favor. They do not consider and ponder the astounding suffering and payment made for them at the cross. They live their lives crucifying Christ afresh, over and over. They are obsessed with their performance, rather than the finished work of Christ. If they they only could receive that revelation, (sigh) it would transform their lives!

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Very well stated Sonship...it is sad that so many Christians live their lives trying to "earn" God's favor. They do not consider and ponder the astounding suffering and payment made for them at the cross. They live their lives crucifying Christ afresh, over and over. They are obsessed with their performance, rather than the finished work of Christ. If they they only could receive that revelation, (sigh) it would transform their lives!

Dropping in to do a little brown-nosing ? 😀

Anyway the ones who crucify Christ afresh over and over are the ones who persist in living in sin over and over, and not the ones that do good works.

Read your Bible pal.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Dropping in to do a little brown-nosing ? 😀

Anyway the ones who crucify Christ afresh over and over are the ones who persist in living in sin over and over, and not the ones that do good works.

Read your Bible pal.

What you need is to be confronted with the law. You do not realize how pitiful you sound. If you think you can even begin to approach God by your good works, you will be consumed with shame at what your measly works add up to, and that is putting it mildly.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
What you need is to be confronted with the law. You do not realize how pitiful you sound. If you think you can even begin to approach God by your good works, you will be consumed with shame at what your measly works add up to, and that is putting it mildly.

but faith without works is dead.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
What you need is to be confronted with the law. You do not realize how pitiful you sound. If you think you can even begin to approach God by your good works, you will be consumed with shame at what your measly works add up to, and that is putting it mildly.

Stupidity is speaking against the teachings of Christ.

What did Christ say about good works? Do you remember? People like you have become so arrogant with faith in your man-made doctrine that you forget what Christ said. There is no Christ, no God, no love and charity in people like you. So you just drop in here every so often to lick Jaywill/sonship's A$$ .. now that is pitiful.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well definitely not. To me getting Gods Spirit means you are chosen to have a better chance than most to be right with God. It does not mean that you automatically are right with God.

I find this incredible that Christians with one mouth talk of 'free will' [which all people have whether or not they are Christians], and with the other side of their mouth ...[text shortened]... the same thing. To claim that all sin is forgiven is really unBiblical and just fooling oneself.

For those that live for sin, well yes they will pay for every sin they have done
in this life. I've never said otherwise, to fall away from God is something the
scripture warns about over and over, I've never said that wasn't true either.

I do not agree with you that getting God's Spirit means you just have a shot
at a better life, you had a shot at a better life under the law too. The whole
point of being saved is getting a right relationship with God, to know Him,
and the Holy Spirit teaches about God, we are joined with Him. We need to
avoid sins of the flesh, but the wall that kept us apart is now gone. If we
are walking in the Spirit, following after God sin isn't a problem, who would
want to turn back to death when you are growing in the Lord, those that
love sin will continue to do that.
Kelly

1 Corinthians 6:
11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

12 All things are lawful for me; but not all things are expedient. All things are lawful for me; but I will not be brought under the power of any.

13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall bring to nought both it and them. But the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body:

14 and God both raised the Lord, and will raise up as through his power.

15 Know ye not that your bodies are members of Christ? shall I then take away the members of Christ, and make them members of a harlot? God forbid.

16 Or know ye not that he that is joined to a harlot is one body? for, The twain, saith he, shall become one flesh.

17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Stupidity is speaking against the teachings of Christ.

What did Christ say about good works? Do you remember? People like you have become so arrogant with faith in your man-made doctrine that you forget what Christ said. There is no Christ, no God, no love and charity in people like you. So you just drop in here every so often to lick Jaywill/sonship's A$$ .. now that is pitiful.

I will not take it upon myself to retaliate nor defend myself to the venom spewing out of your heart. I think it is plain for all to see.

Originally posted by KellyJay
..I do not agree with you that getting God's Spirit means you just have a shot at a better life,...

Shot at a better life? Where the hell you got that from?

I said To me getting Gods Spirit means you are chosen to have a better chance than most to be right with God.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I will not take it upon myself to retaliate nor defend myself to the venom spewing out of your heart. I think it is plain for all to see.

but what about my statement that 'faith without works is dead?'

Originally posted by Rajk999
Shot at a better life? Where the hell you got that from?

I said [b]To me getting Gods Spirit means you are chosen to have a better chance than most to be right with God. [/b]

A shot at better chance to be right with God, how much better can it get
than getting God's Spirit? If you are right with God to the point of being one
with God's Spirit, that is as good as it gets.
Kelly

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
but what about my statement that 'faith without works is dead?'

Sonship can give you a 10 page analysis on how 'dead' really means 'eternal life'. And the gullible believe him.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
but what about my statement that 'faith without works is dead?'

I agree...but the good works are the result of having Christ and understanding his love for you, the latter is good works trying to earn approval. There is a huge difference.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I agree...but the good works are the result of having Christ and understanding his love for you, the latter is good works trying to earn approval. There is a huge difference.

Ok then but how are we to understand this verse because it appears to me that Christ places emphasis of doing the will of the father.

(Matthew 7:21) “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I agree...but the good works are the result of having Christ and understanding his love for you, the latter is good works trying to earn approval. There is a huge difference.

The difference is the Spirit of God leading you, if you don't have the Spirit of
God you don't belong to Him. If you are doing anything outside of the Spirit
of God you are doing it in the flesh, which will get you no points with God. So
getting right with God through Jesus Christ, getting God's Spirit and obeying
God will result in doing the things God wants done, not to get right, that was
done for us in Christ Jesus.
Kelly