Cherrypickers

Originally posted by Rajk999
My own medicine? I have no idea what that is about.
I write in very simple clear language that makes perfect sense and is almost identical to what the Bible says.

You write a pile of garbage. But you are right. My attention span is severely restricted when I have to wade through pages and pages of utter nonsense.

My own medicine? I have no idea what that is about.

That is the sad irony.
You have no idea that the same tendency to be too hasty to for careful analysis of a difficult passage, you shown me many times.

I write in very simple clear language that makes perfect sense and is almost identical to what the Bible says.

You come up with difficult passages and hide behind an excuse of conciseness to not consider them as carefully as they should be considered.

When I carefully examined some of these I got the distinct impression that you looked at perhaps half of the first few sentences and quickly dismissed everything that you could not digest in two seconds.

Its OK though. Such an attitude doesn't change the word of God. The loss is not to the Scriptures nor to careful exposition of them.

You write a pile of garbage. But you are right. My attention span is severely restricted when I have to wade through pages and pages of utter nonsense.

So you wish to call my explanation garbage. Go learn what this means.

Titus 1:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

When Paul said to beware of dogs and the concision, I am sure it was legalistic religionists like you he had in mind.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont have the patience to explain further. Clearly you dont understand what Im saying.

What I know is that I've seen you say some very nasty things about God's
people, his church. You don't have to patience to explain it, but you sure
seem to have enough to call God's people all kinds of evil things!
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
What I know is that I've seen you say some very nasty things about God's
people, his church. You don't have to patience to explain it, but you sure
seem to have enough to call God's people all kinds of evil things!
Kelly

You are full of contradictions.

Do you claim to know who Gods people are? I thought you said only Christ knows who Gods people are?

Originally posted by sonship

My own medicine? I have no idea what that is about.

That is the sad irony.
You have no idea that the same tendency to be too hasty to for careful analysis of a difficult passage, you shown me many times.

I write in very simple clear language that makes perfect sense and is almost identical to what the Bible says.

...[text shortened]... are of dogs and the concision, I am sure it was legalistic religionists like you he had in mind.

You and your fake "Council of God" preach utter nonsense.

You preach
- that not even God can take away your salvation - an insult to God
- that it is ok to sin. - another insult to Christ and God who warned people to refrain from sin

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are full of contradictions.

Do you claim to know who Gods people are? I thought you said only Christ knows who Gods people are?

Short enough for you ?

"Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him." (Romans 8:9b)

Originally posted by sonship
Short enough for you ?

[b]"Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him." (Romans 8:9b) [/b]

Are you now claiming to know who has the Spirit of Christ and who does not?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are full of contradictions.

Do you claim to know who Gods people are? I thought you said only Christ knows who Gods people are?

I stand by that, as I pointed out to you that those that Christ accepts when
they honestly come to him are Christians, so when you say Christians are
doing all types of evil things....you are bad mouthing those that Jesus has
accepted.

I've told you over and over much of what you say I agree with respect on
how we need to not get caught up in sin, we need to avoid it. That said I
we need to build up the Church not tear it down and when you paint the
Church as some cesspool of sin you do God a disservice. Paul warned us
that there were going to be fakers in the fellowship, that does not mean
those fakers should be thought of as Christian, I don't care what they call
themselves.
Kelly

Originally posted by Rajk999
You and your fake "Council of God" preach utter nonsense.

You preach
- that not even God can take away your salvation - an insult to God
- that it is ok to sin. - another insult to Christ and God who warned people to refrain from sin

You and your fake "Council of God" preach utter nonsense.

We have been through this "Council of God" thing before. I replied seriously and posters jumped on your side and said to me "lighten up."

So why don't you get some new jokes?
Is this humor about the "Council of God" so precious a whimsy to you that you cannot help re-posting it all the time ?

Sad, Rather sad, and petty.

You preach
- that not even God can take away your salvation - an insult to God
- that it is ok to sin. - another insult to Christ and God who warned people to refrain from sin

I started a thread on The Judgment Seat of Christ.

It proves that my apprehension of the seriousness of coming forward to be a disciple of Jesus Christ is not in the least deficient to your Arian elevator salvation - saved this morning - lost by 11:00 am - saved again at 12:00 - lost again at 2:00 - etc. etc. etc. etc.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I stand by that, as I pointed out to you that those that Christ accepts when
they honestly come to him are Christians, so when you say Christians are
doing all types of evil things....you are bad mouthing those that Jesus has
accepted.

I've told you over and over much of what you say I agree with respect on
how we need to not get caught up in sin, w ...[text shortened]...
those fakers should be thought of as Christian, I don't care what they call
themselves.
Kelly

Do you or do you not know who Gods people are or who Christ accepts?

Simple question.

Originally posted by sonship

You and your fake "Council of God" preach utter nonsense.

We have been through this "Council of God" thing before. I replied seriously and posters jumped on your side and said to me "lighten up."

So why don't you get some new jokes?
Is this humor about the "Council of God" so precious a whimsy to you that you cannot help r ...[text shortened]... his morning - lost by 11:00 am - saved again at 12:00 - lost again at 2:00 - etc. etc. etc. etc.

So that bucket of nails, is that your uncle or auntie ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Do you or do you not know who Gods people are or who Christ accepts?

Simple question.

I've answered that already, no! I do know that those that belong to Christ
and are following him are called Christians as was started in scripture. So
I will not apply that word to fakers.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've answered that already, no! I do know that those that belong to Christ
and are following him are called Christians as was started in scripture. So
I will not apply that word to fakers.
Kelly

Thank you. So there are two important points -
1. that if nobody knows who belong to Christ and who are following him, then nobody knows also who is saved and who is not. Nobody therefore should go around telling anyone that they are saved. Worse is telling people they are saved eternally.

2. Since you define Christians as only those who follow Christ and this is not known to you then if someone asks you how many Christians there are in the world or in a country or in your church, your answer should be truthfully that you do not know. Since my definition is the standard one as used universally then my group includes those who follow Christ and those who do not [you call them fakers].

Originally posted by Rajk999
Thank you. So there are two important points -
1. that if nobody knows who belong to Christ and who are following him, then nobody knows also who is saved and who is not. Nobody therefore should go around telling anyone that they are saved. Worse is telling people they are saved eternally.

2. Since you define Christians as only those who follow Christ an ...[text shortened]... ally then my group includes those who follow Christ and those who do not [you call them fakers].

Catholic and Lutheran thinkers reached a similar impasse some centuries ago. Catholics argued that only the Pope is infallible, thinking they had thereby refuted Luther's heresy. Lutherans countered that, if only the Pope is infallible, then only the Pope knows who the Pope is: that guy in Rome with the big mitre could be an impostor and we'd never know it.

If I may quote from a Catholic source on the sin of presumption:

"It may be defined as the condition of a soul that, because of a badly regulated reliance on God’s mercy and power, hopes for salvation without doing anything to deserve it, or for pardon of his sins without repenting of them."

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-is-the-sin-of-presumption

I think it follows from this that no one can ever be absolutely certain of his own salvation, since any human effort at repentance might be tainted by insincerity (or by subsequent apostasy). Given that one cannot be absolutely certain about one's own sincerity and constancy, it follows that no one can be certain about anyone else's either. What is certain, for the devout Christian, is that a promise has been made and that a path has been shown to salvation.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Thank you. So there are two important points -
1. that if nobody knows who belong to Christ and who are following him, then nobody knows also who is saved and who is not. Nobody therefore should go around telling anyone that they are saved. Worse is telling people they are saved eternally.

2. Since you define Christians as only those who follow Christ an ...[text shortened]... ally then my group includes those who follow Christ and those who do not [you call them fakers].

You paint everyone who claims to be a Christian with one broad brush, but
I'll leave you to it. It is God's church you bad mouth not mine.
Kelly

This reply is not for you Rajk999. I simply replied to copy his points.
It is for others who wish to know how to deal with points raised.

Thank you. So there are two important points -
1. that if nobody knows who belong to Christ and who are following him, then nobody knows also who is saved and who is not.

This is a very bad proposal. I would say it is both stupid and against the New Testament.

If believers have absolutely NO IDEA who is a Christian and who is not then it would be impossible to have the church life. But practically all of Paul's letters are to churches. They presume that he knows that the assembly of people are Christians and that they themselves know also.

It is not necessary that they ALWAYS know as well as God Himself or that they can NEVER possibly be mistaken. Of course the Lord Jesus Himself informs His disciples that sometimes they WILL be mistaken (See Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43 - the parable of the wheat and the tares.)

The Apostles also inform in the epistles that sometimes the true disciples will be mistaken in Second Peter, Jude, and First John.

The mistakeness is a matter not of PROCEDURE but of FACT. There is no such PROCEDURE that the disciples of Jesus should adopt a general attitude that they do not know if anyone is a true Christian. Rather it is the admission that at some point they will not be able to discern a false Christian.

So a general policy that because we may mistake a false Christian we should therefore never TRY to discern true believers is totally against the New Testament.

In receiving participants into the church life the we believers are told to receive one another as we discern each has been received already by Jesus Christ:

"Therefore receive one another, as Christ also received you to the glory of God." (Romans 15:7 )

To the best of their discernment and ability the churches should only ask themselves "Has Jesus received this person? If we sense that they have been received by Jesus we must also receive them."

Nobody therefore should go around telling anyone that they are saved. Worse is telling people they are saved eternally.

This statement is absolutely false and stupid baloney.

The epistles are FILLED with indications that the writers are telling people they are saved.

IE. "Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi ..." (Phil. 1:1)

If they are saints they are set apart to be holy and are saved.

IE. "Paul, a called apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother, To the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, the called saints, with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, who is theirs and ours." ( 1 Cor. 1:1,2)

This letter is to the Christians - saved to become saints and those who "call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ", not only in Corinth but in "every place" Their Lord Jesus is also the Lord Jesus of Paul and "the [Christian] brother" Sosthenes.

There is no policy to be ambiguous about who is a Christian.
There is no procedure to be evasive about who in Corinth is a saved "saint" set apart unto God for salvation.

Lastly First John emphatically informs the audience about their status as saved Christians -

"And this is the testimony, that God gave to us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (1 John 5:11,12)

The audience can check their own lives and tell if they have eternal life or not. And it is for this reason John writes them, that they may have the assurance that they are with eternal life:

"I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (v.13)

John does not write "that you may hope ..." or "that you may do the best you can ..." or "that you may see how it finally turns out ..." or "that you may assume but not be too sure ..."

John says "that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God."

Roman Catholicism may be one denomination which adopts Rajk999's erroneous attitude. That is a false humility that says "Well because we don't know who is really saved, we will just say that everyone is in the church and tell them to see how it turns out in the end."

Such a false magnanimous ambiguity has not foundation in the New Testament.

What is the attitude of God towards Christians ? Paul informs us:

1.) The Lord KNOWS those who are His (even when we Christians make a mistake).

2.) Let everyone who names the Lord depart from unrighteousness.

There is here in Second Timothy 2:19 -

1.) An indication that God KNOWS those who have His divine life and are His.

2.) Those who ARE His and confess Him should depart from unrighteous living.

New American Standard Bible
Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."

King James Bible
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, having this inscription: The Lord knows those who are His, and Everyone who names the name of the Lord must turn away from unrighteousness.