Christ is all the "things"

Originally posted by apathist
I don't know what I intended to say. Except, the Bible route failed. God's word, what a joke, that has killed millions. Billions, yet?

what about the millions who have been helped by it? People like sonship who find meaning and purpose in it? why do you never mention those? have you ever considered the idea that your perspective may be completely biased? Is this not an instance of that? perhaps your life is more meaningful than his for having discarded the Bible?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what about the millions who have been helped by it? People like sonship who find meaning and purpose in it? why do you never mention those? have you ever considered the idea that your perspective may be completely biased? Is this not an instance of that?

All views are biased by the spirit within.

Originally posted by Eladar
All views are biased by the spirit within.

Thank you great wise and wonderful sage, it is truly better to suffer the winters wind than the tigers breath.

The subject is that Christ is all the things. Here is another ground to teach that all the necessary and needed attributes and virtues are in Christ. They are not outside of Him or elsewhere. They are include in Jesus Christ.

" Beware that no one carries you off as spoil through his philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ." (Col. 2:8)

Here we have all the "elements of the world" in contrast in a negative sense against Christ.

In human philsophies there are all kinds of things. Many are good things. These Paul calls "the elements of the world". They are the little bits of good things which societies have to make up the world. But they are not the living Person Christ.

All the "things" needed are in Christ. And the Christian should be wary that he is not being distracted from Christ by a philosophy with all of its things.

If someone with a smooth tongue, an intelligent educational sound seeks to carry the the believers off as their spoil, the Christians needs to return to the living Person Christ. He doesn't need these many good things - the elements of the world. He needs the living Person Christ applied in every area of his life.

The things outside of Christ are emphasized by various people's philosophies. Paul says that before the Galatian Christians were saved they were SLAVES to all these "things" - these elements of the world.

"So also we, when we were children kept in slavery under the elements of the world ..." (Galatians 4:3)

The Christian must see that all the divine attributes and all the positive human virtues are in Christ. He no longer needs to be in slavery to the good OR bad things of human religion and philosophy.

The Christians should not seek to return to those things as apart from Christ and elements of the world. They are weak and ineffective. They are poor in contrast to taking Christ as everything needed.

"But now, having come to know God, or rather having been known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and poor elements, to which you desire to be enslaved yet again? " (Gal. 4:9)

Originally posted by FMF
Why does he have to give "examples" from his personal life? Isn't the discussion here about what the correct Christian doctrine is? Rajk999 has not once demanded to know personal information from sonship about his works and deeds, so where is the hypocrisy?

This is a disagreement about theology and doctrine. Neither sonshp nor Rajk999 has to boast about thei ...[text shortened]... t the Bible says different. There is no hypocrisy in play; if there is, what do you think it is?

That woman is best ignored. 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

In that quotation from brother Witness Lee was included this:

In the early years of my ministry, it was my habit to correct and adjust others. But I gradually learned that this is not God’s way in His economy. Because we have the Spirit of holiness within us, there is no need for outward adjustment. If we turn to the Lord and contact Him, we shall experience His death and resurrection. This resurrection is according to the Spirit of holiness. Hallelujah, the resurrection life with the resurrection power is within us!

Notice the words - "If we turn to the Lord and contact Him ...".

The correction, the adjustment the erring believers need is to learn to turn to the Lord Jesus and contact Him.

You will not want to contact Him if you do not believe He is available.
JW teach that the Lord Jesus is not available.

Neither will want to contact Him if you have been indoctrinated to raise a red flag of "paganism" in your mind at the very mention of Jesus. The JWs indoctrinate that to believe Jesus is Lord is to believe pagan idolatry. So you will not turn your heart to the Lord Jesus to love Him or contact Him.

Rather you will be bothered at the thought of loving the One who died for you on the cross. You'll be agitated and consider the dear Savior the "teddy bear" of deceived Christians who never grew up. Self deceived you will be cold towards both the Father and the Son.

But if you want the Father you must receive the Son. You should let there be absolutely, and I mean ABSOLUTELY no limit on how deeply you love the Lord Jesus Christ. I assure you that the more you love the Lord Jesus Christ the happier Jehovah will be.

"Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who confesses the Son has the Father also.

As for you, that which you heard from the beginning, let it abide in you. If that which you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:23,24 RcV )

Originally posted by FMF
So you are 100% sure you won't be thrown into a furnace and tortured after you die? You are 100% sure? That's why you said you "know", is it?

I am sure that on Calvary, on His cross, I was judged. As to eternity God's righteous claim on me was satisfied when divine judgment fell upon Christ.

When I worked in New York city in the Pan Am building on the 20 something floor, I had a panoramic view of millions of people of New York. Occasionally I would go look out that window and pray thankfully that the Lamb of God took away the sins of the world. I was amazed at how extensive His salvation is.

Substitution took place and Christ bore the judgment of God for my sins. I have eternal redemption. If it is not so then God is unrighteous. And that is impossible.

Don't think that a good Christian has to be one who will argue with FMF perpetually.
Endless argumentation with you is not the mark of a successful believer.
You can scrutinize all you wish. I am not under obligation to perpetually argue forever to prove anything.

Originally posted by sonship
In that quotation from brother Witness Lee was included this:

In the early years of my ministry, it was my habit to correct and adjust others. But I gradually learned that this is not God’s way in His economy. Because we have the Spirit of holiness within us, there is no need for outward adjustment. If we turn to the Lord and contact Him, we shal ...[text shortened]... in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:23,24 RcV )

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JW teach that the Lord Jesus is not available - sonhsip

Where do we teach that 'the Lord' is not available.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
JW teach that the Lord Jesus is not available - sonhsip

Where do we teach that 'the Lord' is not available.

In your teaching that the Holy Spirit is not a Person (for lack of a better human language word) you deny Christ is available or knowable.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
JW teach that the Lord Jesus is not available - sonhsip

Where do we teach that 'the Lord' is not available.

You not only deny the Lord Jesus Christ is available. In so doing you deny that Jehovah is available.

Oh, at the kingdom time in the future in some sensory way Jehovah, you teach, may be available. But Jehovah is not Jesus in your teaching. And Jehovah in Jesus wants to come to make an abode in the lovers of Jesus.

So you deny both Jesus the Lord and Jehovah is available in a subjective and experiential way. This is totally different from the New Testament teaching.

Of course the words of the Bible teach the incarnation and the indwelling to those who are regenerated. Since the words are there your organization has to reinterpret all those words to mean something that you want them to mean.

Originally posted by sonship
In your teaching that the Holy Spirit is not a Person (for lack of a better human language word) you deny Christ is available or knowable.

no it doesn't and your logic does not follow, you made a claim either substantiate it with rationale or retract it.

Originally posted by sonship
You not only deny the Lord Jesus Christ is available. In so doing you deny that Jehovah is available.

Oh, at the kingdom time in the future in some sensory way Jehovah, you teach, may be available. But Jehovah is not Jesus in your teaching. And Jehovah in Jesus wants to come to make an abode in the lovers of Jesus.

So you deny both Jesus the Lord and J ...[text shortened]... ur organization has to reinterpret all those words to mean something that you want them to mean.

I have denied nothing and you have made claims that you cannot substantiate, where do we teach that one cannot reach Christ.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
JW teach that the Lord Jesus is not available - sonhsip

Where do we teach that 'the Lord' is not available.

Notice the subtle difference.

Where do we teach that 'the Lord' is not available.

Whether intentional or not you left off "Jesus" in "the Lord JESUS".

By the way, The Lord is the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17). The Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit. But you don't believe in the Triune God. That to you is pagan.

The Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

The last Adam [Jesus Christ] became a "life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

He became in a form in which God GIVES His divine life to man

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no it doesn't and your logic does not follow, you made a claim either substantiate it with rationale or retract it.

Have you ever gone to any door and sat with people and taught them how to receive Jesus Christ into their heart ?

If not, why not ?