Christ is the only way

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
oh my dear friend your criticisms are unwarranted, i have no fear of homosexuals, i am not sexiest in the least and i have not been a witness of the most high all my life, and while i appreciate your concern for my well being, i am not as free as i once was to 'hang out', but have many family responsibilities which need my attention.

you must not ...[text shortened]... y with

i tire of the evolution v creation debate, besides creation is just more exciting 🙂

i have no fear of homosexuals

I never said you did. But you do routinely display a homophobic attitude.

i am not sexiest in the least

I didn't think you are, but your constant use of the word he could be taken another way. Your view that the man should provide for his family is very outdated Rob also, i know couples where the female is the main bread winner in the household, we are in the 21st Century now.

Surely you cannot discard it so lightly my friend?

I can and do.

i tire of the evolution v creation debate, besides creation is just more exciting

Fairytales are good fun.

Originally posted by Ullr
"thus he works, not to acquire wealth, but to provide sustenance and covering for his family, thus freeing him from the snare of materialism and many of the ills which go with it.

That sounds like everybody i know. And none of them are religious in any way."

I wish I could say that that sounds like everybody I know. However, I can say that many people whom are not Christian fit that description quite well.

yes, they do Ullr, in fact i was discussing this with my friend who used to live in Baltimore, there may even be, among our American friends, a significant cultural difference in that God blesses those who are faithful with riches, thus riches and wealth are seen as a result of Gods blessing, while poverty is seen as a consequence of his displeasure. This is of course Biblically speaking absolute nonsense, for while many of Gods servants were wealthy, many were very ordinary. Paul sets the precedent, in that our obligation is not to riches, but simply to be content. This is of course old Nietzsche who derided Christians for this, stating they were weak and beggarly, but wisdom is proved righteous through its works. I have seen not one or to persons get into serious difficulty by putting too much emphasis on what is material! Those who are termed 'Christian', may in fact be nothing of the sort, a point worth noting 🙂

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]i have no fear of homosexuals

I never said you did. But you do routinely display a homophobic attitude.

i am not sexiest in the least

I didn't think you are, but your constant use of the word he could be taken another way. Your view that the man should provide for his family is very outdated Rob also, i know couples where th ...[text shortened]... ution v creation debate, besides creation is just more exciting[/b]

Fairytales are good fun.[/b]

if i do not fear homosexuals, how can i display a homophobic attitude?

'he', is just an easy way, it is simply not expedient to go into what may or may not be politically correct my friend, whether its a 'person hole cover' or a 'man hole cover'. 🙂

nooooooo, please you cannot dismiss three thousand years of recorded human history, its noooooooooo possible!

the Creationist has the added element in that through an examination of the physical world, he 'sees', confirmation of his religious ideas, and while the materialist may also behold beauty and wonder, i do not think that he gets the same sense of 'religious experience', that a theist does, in fact, how could he?

back soon, bahhh i need to go shopping , is there anything worse ???? help meeeeeeee!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes, they do Ullr, in fact i was discussing this with my friend who used to live in Baltimore, there may even be, among our American friends, a significant cultural difference in that God blesses those who are faithful with riches, thus riches and wealth are seen as a result of Gods blessing, while poverty is seen as a consequence of his displeasure. ...[text shortened]... Those who are termed 'Christian', may in fact be nothing of the sort, a point worth noting 🙂

I think we are in agreement Robbie except perhaps on the title of the thread that Christ is the "only" way. I would argue that this is false. The OP's argument is that this is true because Christ truly suffered and thus is the only deity that could possibly offer comfort and compassion towards humankind. I could just as easily argue that the Allfather Odin suffered by hanging himself upside down on a tree for 9 stormy nights without food or whatever in order to aquire wisdom for the benefit of mankind. But I know that my religion is not the only valid religion and so I don't spend my time here trying to browbeat others into seeing it my way.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Islam , for example , finds the whole idea of God being humiliated on a cross or suffering abhorent. For them , God is transcendent and all powerful - the idea of God dying in agony on a cross is ridiculous.

So that's at least one major religion in which God cannot be said to identify with our humanity in the same way as Christ does. Allah does not k ...[text shortened]... ejected and die in agony - he hasn't experienced it. He hasn't tasted what it is to be human.[/b]

Ok, but if Allah is supposed to be omniscient, what's the difference if he didn't get personified as a human and suffered? Shouldn't he know what suffering is anyways?

you know... if it wasnt for the deranged point of view of seemingly every practicing christian in the world, i might be proud to be a christian, instead of ashamed.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
if i do not fear homosexuals, how can i display a homophobic attitude?

'he', is just an easy way, it is simply not expedient to go into what may or may not be politically correct my friend, whether its a 'person hole cover' or a 'man hole cover'. 🙂

nooooooo, please you cannot dismiss three thousand years of recorded human history, its nooooooo
back soon, bahhh i need to go shopping , is there anything worse ???? help meeeeeeee!

"Is there anything worse?" Shopping for clothes with your teenage daughter😛

Originally posted by karoly aczel
"Is there anything worse?" Shopping for clothes with your teenage daughter😛

yes, being forced to go with your teenage daughter, your wife and your mom! for clothes , curtains and tiles for the kitchen floor, for ones trauma is only just beginning, ahhhh the horror!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...i am not sexiest in the least...

I love Freudian typos. 😉

Originally posted by ua41
Ok, but if Allah is supposed to be omniscient, what's the difference if he didn't get personified as a human and suffered? Shouldn't he know what suffering is anyways?

Which is the whole point. How can Allah be truely omnisicent unless he is present to every hurt and pain and suffering that has ever occurred in human history? Jesus is because he is God incarnate with us and present via his spirit.

It's also virtually impossible to imagine how Allah can know what it really feels like to be human , tempted , rejected , fragile , in pain and suffer WITHOUT actually going through it himself. Allah has never been a human being (according to Islam) so he can only imagine what it's like to be one. Imagining what it's like is not the same as knowing. I cannot know the true depth of what it's like to have chemotherapy and be terminally ill because I haven't experienced it - I just don't know. If I said I knew it what it was like I would be inauthentic and some guy who had might punch me on the nose for being such a presumptious twit.

If you don't understand the difference between really knowing something from experiencing it and knowing something from using some intellectual imaginative process then we have no grounds for continuing with this. You and I both know that there are things in this life that you would not have known unless you had experienced them for yourself.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Which is the whole point. How can Allah be truely omnisicent unless he is present to every hurt and pain and suffering that has ever occurred in human history? Jesus is because he is God incarnate with us and present via his spirit.

It's also virtually impossible to imagine how Allah can know what it really feels like to be human , tempted , reject in this life that you would not have known unless you had experienced them for yourself.

I agree, I can't read about symptoms of a disease or whatever and relate on the pain with someone who actually has the illness. But omniscience and omnipotence should entail the experience itself.

But, yes, at this point I feel like we've just come to it being a matter of personal reflection.
Cheers, mate 😀

Originally posted by FabianFnas
No, Christ is not the only way

And that, in a nutshell, is what separates Christians from non-Christians: we believe Christ IS the only way to salvation; the other guys do not. C'est la vie.

Originally posted by ua41
I agree, I can't read about symptoms of a disease or whatever and relate on the pain with someone who actually has the illness. But omniscience and omnipotence should entail the experience itself.

But, yes, at this point I feel like we've just come to it being a matter of personal reflection.
Cheers, mate 😀

But omniscience and omnipotence should entail the experience itself.
-----ua41--------------------

Of course it should - but simply saying that Allah is omniscient of suffering doesn't make it so - there's no process or theology in Islam that describes how Allah comes by this experiential knowledge. In Christianity there is.

That , my friend, is the whole point. All other deity religions talk about suffering intellectually - in Christianity God actually DOES suffer.

I don't see how Allah (as an example) can possibly be omniscient of what it is to suffer and be human unless he has suffered as a human. Can you?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
if i do not fear homosexuals, how can i display a homophobic attitude?

'he', is just an easy way, it is simply not expedient to go into what may or may not be politically correct my friend, whether its a 'person hole cover' or a 'man hole cover'. 🙂

nooooooo, please you cannot dismiss three thousand years of recorded human history, its nooooooo ...[text shortened]...
back soon, bahhh i need to go shopping , is there anything worse ???? help meeeeeeee!

if i do not fear homosexuals, how can i display a homophobic attitude?

What a truly bizarre question, and it just shows you don't really understand what homophobia is. I always thought the Jocks were a bit far behind, i didn't realise it was THIS far?!

nooooooo, please you cannot dismiss three thousand years of recorded human history, its noooooooooo possible!

You're right i don't dismiss three thousand years of history, i just view it with a large pinch of salt. I dismiss what you might call 'the divine elemement'. You wouldn't expect someone to take the Legend of King Arthur as serious fact, likewise with the Bible.

he 'sees', confirmation of his religious ideas

As i've told you many times, you take evidence when it confirms your story, but evidence whcih contradicts the same story is dismissed out of hand. 'Pic 'n' Mix Christians'!!! It reminds me of the 'Emporers New Clothes story'.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Which is the whole point. How can Allah be truely omnisicent unless he is present to every hurt and pain and suffering that has ever occurred in human history? Jesus is because he is God incarnate with us and present via his spirit.

It's also virtually impossible to imagine how Allah can know what it really feels like to be human , tempted , reject in this life that you would not have known unless you had experienced them for yourself.

Is it not reasonable to make the point KM, purely for the sake of argument, that this response assumes it is not possible for Allah to understand our suffering without demonstrating that it went through a painful ordeal observed by human witnesses?

How in the grand scheme of wonderful and magically incomprehensible to us mere humans feats that gods are supposed to be capable of do you expect to defend this view? 🙂

If you make the point that *your god* panders to our need to see him suffer as we do then why does he not pander to our other needs??? (such as our requirement 2000+ years later to have some proof that he exists in the first place!)