Originally posted by chaney3
Why is it so important for you to have God reveal Himself?

In the Exodus story, God's presence was with the Israelites day and night, but it didn't matter. Their behavior didn't change.

Maybe His presence is not the issue. You calling it 'hiding', may be missing the point.

I don't care what the bible said. Those people did not even know about stars and atoms.

Where are the gods, other than in your head.

Originally posted by chaney3
The human body.
Our bodies are much too complex to have not been created.
Since origin of life is unknown by man, I believe a Creator is responsible.

That is your opinion. You have no degrees in medicine to back up your statement. We see fossils going back billions of years literally and it is a small change after small change that is evolution and evolution says nothing about origins so don't bring that card up.

We see things going from not too complex to extremely complex and evolution shows those changes quite clearly.

Of course you would dis all that as BS. That is your choice. That changes nothing except your stance. It in no way changes reality.

Originally posted by sonhouse
That is your opinion. You have no degrees in medicine to back up your statement. We see fossils going back billions of years literally and it is a small change after small change that is evolution and evolution says nothing about origins so don't bring that card up.

We see things going from not too complex to extremely complex and evolution shows those c ...[text shortened]... BS. That is your choice. That changes nothing except your stance. It in no way changes reality.

There is nothing connecting fossils either outside side of someone thinking/believing/or taking someone's word for it. Even if the dating is spot on that does not mean one fossil was before another in a family tree.

Originally posted by KellyJay
There is nothing connecting fossils either outside side of someone thinking/believing/or taking someone's word for it. Even if the dating is spot on that does not mean one fossil was before another in a family tree.

Since you are coming from a religious viewpoint not allowing even the CONCEPT of evolution, your opinion is totally clouded. If you dig into the ground 2 feet and you find the skull of a mammoth and it dates to say 20,000 years ago and you dig 4 feet into the same earth and find another fossil that carbon dating of the fossil itself even without reference to the earth it was dug out of, and it carbon dates to 30,000 years ago you can be pretty sure it came from a previous time.

Don't you think archaeologists look at ALL the data they find? Do you think they just go, ok, here is a find from two feet underground and here is another from 4 feet underground, do you think they just automatically jump to the conclusion the one underneath is from an older time?

Do you realize there is much more going on than that? There is an actual SCIENCE involved and that means they approach dating from many different angles and only when the angles line up do they pronounce a date.

Data like are there patterns of layers in clear outlines from the dig saying there was no cross contamination from a top layer to a lower layer or vice versa.

Or that a piece found in a riverbed was just dated on the spot without considering what the water flow may have done to move the fossil from where it is found to where it most likely started out?

Or the layers of rock in stirations showing for instance, the Indium layers found indicating a REALLY big blast 66 million years ago, where they knew the indium layer HAD to come from interplanetary space because of the scarcity of indium on Earth.

Do you diss data like that or analysis like that just because you don't believe in evolution?

You HAVE to take a look at your own internal biases to determine where your stance comes from.

You dis an entire science, nay, SEVERAL sciences when you just blanket say they don't know what they are talking about as if they never really delve into the subject and consider things from several different angle before making a judgement of an age.

Are you one of those who literally think Earth is 6000 years old? Like Hinds? You have to know that is 100% false. If you don't think that you have to see the rest of your objections are coming from a religious bias anyway, say believing there ARE fossils million of years old but on the other hand dissing actual date findings as if the scientists involved are utter fools. They are most definitely NOT fools and they don'g go into a specimen arbitrarily assigning some date just based on how deep it was it was dug up. It just doesn't work that way.

It just irritates me to see religious people dissing whole sciences because those science don't fall down and play dead when a religious person just comes out and says they don't know what they are talking about, that after they have gone to school some of them 20 years studying a subject, getting a Phd because they have something new to say about their field, a field in which you have zero knowledge of but still consider yourself well able to call them incompetent. You may come back with 'I never said they were incompetent' but that is the bottom line of your accusations. That they don't really have the brains to make age dating statements.

And that would be 100% because those dates seem to go against what you consider to be your religion.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Since you are coming from a religious viewpoint not allowing even the CONCEPT of evolution, your opinion is totally clouded. If you dig into the ground 2 feet and you find the skull of a mammoth and it dates to say 20,000 years ago and you dig 4 feet into the same earth and find another fossil that carbon dating of the fossil itself even without reference t ...[text shortened]... that would be 100% because those dates seem to go against what you consider to be your religion.

I think you should take a little time and read everything I have written on evolution,
because you are in error. My view point is that I do believe in evolution, I don't believe
that all life shares the same beginning in that we all came from some 'first cells' or
whatever you want to call it, but that we were fully formed and small changes started
within established lifeforms.

With my beliefs about evolution we can actually see today, looking at your description of
it, well as near as I can tell it boarders upon a religious faith. You have to connect some
dots, suggesting this date, and that date, upon this fossil, and that one, would make some
think they were related upon some evolutionary family tree. Could be you are spot on
with the dates, nothing about my religious beliefs would deny that, could be you are
mistaken about the dates, nothing about my religious beliefs would support you either. It
could be they just look alive and are not relatives, you don't know, YOUR GUESSING!

Actual science look at some dating, find a couple that sort of look a like and pronounce
them related. Amazing how that works!

I know when to say what I believe is a matter of faith, not a fact, because I cannot know
if I'm right or not. You can make claims, there is NO ONE that can prove you wrong since
we are talking about the distant past.

I am one that believes the earth is literally 6000 years old, I believe it, cannot prove it, and
I freely admit I could be WAY wrong. You accusing me of things again not true sonhouse
I don't have to know some thing is 100% false, but at the same time I don't assume I am
correct because I trust my sources too. Even if we were to get some piece of data, and
then properly do the math, it doesn't mean we are right, it only means the math was good.

If you want to claim you are certain, feel free, you will have no excuse if you are shown
you are or were wrong. What irritates me is that you didn't see anything I said about my
faith or religion, I gave you my reasons for not just blindly accepting something about
evolution and you twist and spew out some false statements about my views as if you
grasped them. If you cannot be right about some thing like, how the hell do you think your
views about supposedly millions of years ago are correct too?