25 Sep 15
I am mainly interested in what the Christians have to say on the topic but all are welcome of course. How do you discern the times in which we live? Much has been said over the past several months not only in the media but from pulpits, books, radio... and Youtube videos. There are celestial events taking place, economic market collapses, political unrest in the middle east (more than what is usual).
I am curious, what are your thoughts? What is your basis?
25 Sep 15
Originally posted by yoctobyteThere is a discussion among Christian believers about the return of Jesus Christ and the
I am mainly interested in what the Christians have to say on the topic but all are welcome of course. How do you discern the times in which we live? Much has been said over the past several months not only in the media but from pulpits, books, radio... and Youtube videos. There are celestial events taking place, economic market collapses, political unre ...[text shortened]... e east (more than what is usual).
I am curious, what are your thoughts? What is your basis?
end. Personally, my opinion is I avoid that discussion. I do believe Jesus is going to return,
and there is going to be a time where God ends this universe as is. The reason I avoid it
is you have to be ready no matter what, if you die today and the end is tomorrow and you
are not ready, it will go badly for you.
First of all, do not confuse the media or what is said from pulpits with reality.
Secondly the world in general is over time getting to be a better place to live as science, education and democracy progress. Apart from a very few places in the world, most people and countries are getting wealthier and healthier over time.
Celestial events continue as normal. Nothing unusual there.
25 Sep 15
Originally posted by twhiteheadThere is no confusion with regards to the media or pulpits, many outlets suggest the same thing although they don't believe the same. The world as you say may or may not be getting better over time but that is irrelevant to the OP.
First of all, do not confuse the media or what is said from pulpits with reality.
Secondly the world in general is over time getting to be a better place to live as science, education and democracy progress. Apart from a very few places in the world, most people and countries are getting wealthier and healthier over time.
Celestial events continue as normal. Nothing unusual there.
Do you discern the times in any particular way personally, or is business as usual for you?
Originally posted by yoctobyteApart from my own health declining with age, the times are generally getting better for me. Computers are getting faster, games are getting better, the internet is getting faster and better.
Do you discern the times in any particular way personally, or is business as usual for you?
26 Sep 15
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayI too avoid this discussion, although I'm sure you have managed to embroiled in it here before.
There is a discussion among Christian believers about the return of Jesus Christ and the
end. Personally, my opinion is I avoid that discussion. I do believe Jesus is going to return,
and there is going to be a time where God ends this universe as is. The reason I avoid it
is you have to be ready no matter what, if you die today and the end is tomorrow and you
are not ready, it will go badly for you.
I avoid it because I don't have clue and therefore can't comment. I think there are some things in the world that are getting better and others not.
The "end times" has become a cliche as has "born again" both of which are simplist biblical notions. On the one hand the bible speaks of discerning the times and on the other it speaks about things being so bad that "men's hearts will be failing them with fear".
Every generation has the opportunity to believe that they are in the last times and at Jesus return is imminent. We forget one thing, the bible says "no man knows the hour"
So, who knows?
26 Sep 15
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterAs to "not knowing the day nor the hour":
I too avoid this discussion, although I'm sure you have managed to embroiled in it here before.
I avoid it because I don't have clue and therefore can't comment. I think there are some things in the world that are getting better and others not.
The "end times" has become a cliche as has "born again" both of which are simplist biblical notions. On ...[text shortened]... eturn is imminent. We forget one thing, the bible says "no man knows the hour"
So, who knows?
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is." -- Mark 13:32-33
But on the other hand:
"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors." -- Mark 13:28-29
So we know not the day nor the hour, but we can discern the season, or when "it is nigh". We also know that this will include what is called the Rapture, then 3.5 years of "the beginning of sorrows" (or 1290 days, as given in Daniel) and then 3.5 years of the Great Tribulation (or 1335 days as given in Daniel), and then the return of Christ, which shall include His coming as the warrior-Messiah the Jews have been waiting for, and His defeat of the AntiChrist and the binding of Satan, followed by the Judgement of all men.
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by SuzianneExactly my point. Contradiction which clouds the issue.
As to "not knowing the day nor the hour":
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is." -- Mark 13:32-33
But on the other hand:
"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth f ...[text shortened]... shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors." -- Mark 13:28-29
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by divegeesterNot at all. Knowing the week or month doesn't mean you know the day nor the hour. No contradiction.
Exactly my point. Contradiction which clouds the issue.
Plus, standing this far out, we can't even put a tack on the month or year, for other things have to happen first, but still, the season is drawing nigh. I'd say within a generation. The handwriting on the wall (another Daniel reference) is getting clearer all the time.
Originally posted by yoctobyteNot sure of the celestial events part but Im pretty sure that there have been far more serious "economic market collapses" and "political unrest in the middle east", in the last century than in these times.
I am mainly interested in what the Christians have to say on the topic but all are welcome of course. How do you discern the times in which we live? Much has been said over the past several months not only in the media but from pulpits, books, radio... and Youtube videos. There are celestial events taking place, economic market collapses, political unre ...[text shortened]... e east (more than what is usual).
I am curious, what are your thoughts? What is your basis?
Probably the worse time in history for markets has been the first 50 years of the C20. And the worse time in human history for political unrest in the mid east has been the next 50 years of the C20. The last 15 years [our time] has been relatively tame in comparison.
For church leaders, Religion = money. Just like any money making business you need to find ways to sell what you have and this means to bring people into the churches. Tell them what they want to hear and they will come and will pay to hear it. Speak the truth and your church [and bank account] is empty. Many Christians want to hear that the world will soon end and so they gravitate to such teachings.
Personally, I have been hearing these predictions of the world coming to an end, or world getting worse and Christ returning, etc, all last days predictions, for the last 50 years. All were wrong. Instead, I have seen nothing but improvement and betterment for the most of the world. Standard of living, political stability, quality of life, and particularly unprecedented advances in medical and other technologies that completely change the way people live.
It is entirely possible that Christ will return and nobody except the saints [not necessarily Christians] will know about it.
Originally posted by yoctobyteHow do you quantify that these events are taking place "more than usual?"
I am mainly interested in what the Christians have to say on the topic but all are welcome of course. How do you discern the times in which we live? Much has been said over the past several months not only in the media but from pulpits, books, radio... and Youtube videos. There are celestial events taking place, economic market collapses, political unre ...[text shortened]... e east (more than what is usual).
I am curious, what are your thoughts? What is your basis?
In fact, the world is, by relative historical standards, in a rather peaceful and stable political and socio-economic state.
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by twhiteheadIt would be a grave mistake to conclude that the current rate of prosperity can be maintained indefinitely. Our material wealth is maintained by undermining the natural capital of the world to unsustainable degrees. All your starry-eyed paeans to progress are going to turn to dust with the impending ecological collapse we are unleashing. Future generations will curse our era as the most benighted in history.
First of all, do not confuse the media or what is said from pulpits with reality.
Secondly the world in general is over time getting to be a better place to live as science, education and democracy progress. Apart from a very few places in the world, most people and countries are getting wealthier and healthier over time.
Celestial events continue as normal. Nothing unusual there.
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by rwingettI have made no such conclusions. I do however believe that an increase in prosperity for the vast majority of the world is most likely to continue for the next 50 years or so. I wouldn't like to guess beyond that.
It would be a grave mistake to conclude that the current rate of prosperity can be maintained indefinitely.
Our material wealth is maintained by undermining the natural capital of the world to unsustainable degrees.
Some of it yes, but not the bulk of it. And many of the unsustainable resources can be made sustainable.
All your starry-eyed paeans to progress are going to turn to dust with the impending ecological collapse we are unleashing.
I am not buying that.
Future generations will curse our era as the most benighted in history.
I doubt it. What do you base that on?
If anything I think such a claim is nothing more than a starry-eyed paean to future progress, and it totally unwarranted.
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by rwingettThe world is now at a place where it is possible to live in a house, and to drive a car that runs entirely on solar energy.
It would be a grave mistake to conclude that the current rate of prosperity can be maintained indefinitely. Our material wealth is maintained by undermining the natural capital of the world to unsustainable degrees. All your starry-eyed paeans to progress are going to turn to dust with the impending ecological collapse we are unleashing. Future generations will curse our era as the most benighted in history.
It must have been less that 25 years ago that Bill Gates spoke of a computer in every home and the skeptics laughed at that as being impossible. Now kids are walking around with computers in their book bags that would have seemed impossibly powerful 50 years ago.
Can you imagine what will happen in 50 years time? I can see oil companies, electricity grids, gas stations all shrinking and obviously the carbon footprint.