@kellyjay saidQuestion: Could you choose to be gay?
I could choose to do whatever I want, and in addition I can restrain myself too. Having a desire doesn’t mean I should act on it, especially if It goes against my beliefs and conscience.
KellyJay: I could choose to do whatever I want, and in addition I can restrain myself too.
Question: Should other people restrain their desires, due to going against 'your' beliefs and conscience?
KellyJay: If we are the single measure of rights and wrongs why not?
So, KellyJay. Have I got this right? The only thing that's stopping you from having sex with a man is because you believe it is wrong to do it? Nothing else? Just that it "goes against [your] beliefs and conscience"? If it weren't for that, you'd maybe be living with a man and having sex with him on a regular basis, right?
@kellyjay saidAre you claiming your views represent the true measure for right and wrong? If so, how fortuitous for you.
If we are the single measure of rights and wrongs why not? If we are not then no matter what we say, do, acknowledge, ignore, agree or disagree about no, it will only matter how we line up our lives with that truth!
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou didn’t see me say that! I said if we are not (myself included) the true measure of truth it doesn’t matter what we think is good, that belongs the real truth!
Are you claiming your views represent the true measure for right and wrong? If so, how fortuitous for you.
@kellyjay saidI thought you believed the God of your religion was, in your opinion, your measure of good and truth and right [as opposed to wrong] etc. Are you backing away from that now?
You didn’t see me say that! I said if we are not (myself included) the true measure of truth it doesn’t matter what we think is good, that belongs the real truth!
@fmf saidYes, I thought that was his default position.
I thought you believed the God of your religion was, in your opinion, your measure of good and truth and right [as opposed to wrong] etc. Are you backing away from that now?
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI don’t own God, He is Lord not me. You really want to suggest its all our (people’s opinions) that are the bottom line. You don’t answer to me, no one here does; however our Creator has the bottomline say! If you are going by scriptures isn’t that the truth?
Yes, I thought that was his default position.
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@kellyjay saidQuestion: Could you choose to be gay?
I could choose to do whatever I want, and in addition I can restrain myself too. Having a desire doesn’t mean I should act on it, especially if It goes against my beliefs and conscience.
KellyJay: I could choose to do whatever I want, and in addition I can restrain myself too. Having a desire doesn’t mean I should act on it, especially if It goes against my beliefs and conscience.
What about you getting an erection when thinking about a sexually attractive man?
Do you "choose" not to have an erection?
Does your "restraint" prevent it from happening? Or is it your "conscience"?
If you did not exercise "restraint" or did not follow your "conscience", and if you "chose" to be homosexual instead, is it possible you would get erections around men?
Why would it matter whether someone was naturally inclined to a foul thing?
As it stands, many men lust after women in their hearts and struggle with addiction to smut -- suggesting, though, that it isn't actually a bad thing because it's what they want is a very silly direction to go.
It is also silly to say that a gluttonous, obese person is just doing what they want and their vice is irrelevant.
I'll never really understand the argument that same sex attraction is something that the person might have against their will so it is entirely excused. I think it just strikes deep among people who are into the Rogerian humanist perspective that surely all of us are special and good people way deep down when that is not the case at all.
Humanity is a paradox -- simultaneously capable of good and evil, simultaneously born inclined to good yet also inclined to evil.
@philokalia saidKellyJay's assertion that he could choose to be a homosexual if he wanted to id clearly undermined if ~ being a heterosexual ~ he concedes that he can only get erections because of women and not men.
Why would it matter whether someone was naturally inclined to a foul thing?
@philokalia saidA "very silly direction to go" is KellyJay claiming he could choose to be a homosexual if he wanted to.
As it stands, many men lust after women in their hearts and struggle with addiction to smut -- suggesting, though, that it isn't actually a bad thing because it's what they want is a very silly direction to go.
@fmf saidIt isn't silly.
A "very silly direction to go" is KellyJay claiming he could choose to be a homosexual if he wanted to.
A great deal of scholars believe that sexuality is incredibly fluid...
How else do we explain the waxing and waning popularity of it? There is a belief, for instance, that the ancient Spartans regularly practiced pederasty, and there is also a belief that at different periods in Rome, the Ottoman Empire, the Japanese Empire, Shilla, etc. that homosexual practices were prevalent and widespread. Yet, at the same time, they can drastically contract.
How else can we explain it other than a significant amount of people choose or are integrated into sexualities.
Certainly, those people were not so different than us.
KellyJay agrees with lots of scholars on this topic, doesn't he.
@philokalia saidDo you think citizens who, according to you, do this "foul thing" [i.e. be active homosexuals] should be treated any differently by the government than citizens whose sexual orientation you don't think is "foul"? This is the thread's question.
Why would it matter whether someone was naturally inclined to a foul thing?
@philokalia saidSome people are bisexual, that's true. If KellyJay wants to modify his assertion to say that he could choose to sleep with both men and women by choosing to be a bisexual, that's for him to do if he wants.
It isn't silly.
A great deal of scholars believe that sexuality is incredibly fluid...
@philokalia saidCould you choose to be a homosexual? Do men give you the erections you would need to be able to have intercourse with them? If not, in what sense could you and KellyJay "choose" to be homosexuals?
Certainly, those people were not so different than us.