Dive is a fake Christian

@fmf said
Yes, I do know. I know full well that it's a part of your ideology to believe that something supernatural has happened to you and that, as a result, you believe that you have access to 'special knowledge' that non-believers do not.

You have no choice but to deny the supernatural so that your current beliefs remain intact.

@kellyjay said
You have no choice but to deny the supernatural so that your current beliefs remain intact.

What else would a superstitious person like you say to a person who had a quarter of a century of experience of your religion?

@fmf said
What else would a superstitious person like you say to a person who had a quarter of a century of experience of your religion?

You never had a taste of my religion, if you did you couldn't say there is no God.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think that is your argument (struggle) in a nutshell. Anyone who experiences the spirit of God wouldn't be able to walk away.

Problem is Kelly, many genuine Christians have had cause to abandon their faith. I appreciate that raises issues for you, but that doesn't make it any less true. It does also raise the question 'what if' some life event caused you personally to lose your faith. Would that render your previous belief in God one of fakery?

How do you define a genuine Christian? There is only one way, and that is Jesus
Christ in their lives. Jesus is very clear as I pointed out some will start and leave
right away, some will start and the good times and the bad times will end their
walk too. Its only those that are planted in good soil that grow and remain will
be those Jesus' claims as genuine, the rest will leave for one reason or another.
If they were genuine, being cast into a fire wouldn't cause them to leave Christ.

@kellyjay said
You never had a taste of my religion, if you did you couldn't say there is no God.

It was real to me back then just as it's real to you now. According to your reasoning, neither you nor I can know for sure if you are just "pretending to be a Christian".

@kellyjay said
How do you define a genuine Christian?

Someone who sincerely believes the same ideology about Jesus as you do or as I used to. That's how one csn define "Christian".

@fmf said
It was real to me back then just as it's real to you now. According to your reasoning, neither you nor I can know for sure if you are just "pretending to be a Christian".

And yet, no more.

Matthew 13:
36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

@kellyjay said
And yet, no more.

I wasn't pretending and I don't think you are pretending but if we apply to you the same logic you applied to me then we don't know if you're just pretending. More to the point, even YOU don't know if you're just pretending.

@kellyjay said
Matthew 13:
36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the ...[text shortened]... the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Sounds absolutely ghastly. For whose consumption is it? Christians?

@kellyjay said
Matthew 13:
36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the ...[text shortened]... the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Heed what Jesus actually says in the last three verses:
Matthew 13
41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Note that it is everyone who "commits lawlessness" that will be thrown "into the furnace of fire" leaving only the truly righteous who will "WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father".

Jesus is clear and unambiguous that that is the dividing line according to Him. Only the truly righteous - those who do NOT commit sin - are the true followers of Jesus.

If you're like the vast majority of Christians, you disingenuously ignore or otherwise dismiss verses such as the above.

"He who has ears, let him hear"

It is an interesting situation.

If Dive is sincere in his beliefs, which is something that we have to recognize, we can certainly say that he is very non-orthodox in his views on certain topics. I think that is enough of a criticism, honestly. And it is also a criticism that is true.

But I will say this...

Dive is very passionate about his view that hell is not real. So much so that I am inclined to believe it is something that he truly is attached to. It makes me think that he is a real Christian, but just deeply mistaken on this issue.

@fmf said
I wasn't pretending and I don't think you are pretending but if we apply to you the same logic you applied to me then we don't know if you're just pretending. More to the point, even YOU don't know if you're just pretending.

I'm not the one you need to worry about.

@kellyjay said
I'm not the one you need to worry about.

I'm not worried at all. We're just having a discussion about your peculiar self-serving reasoning about people "pretending" to believe something sincerely and (also, for me) your peculiar lack of insight into the nature of religious faith that your reasoning seeks to erect a rickety fence around.

@philokalia said
It makes me think that he is a real Christian, but just deeply mistaken on this issue.

So you retract what you have said in the past about divegeester in this matter?