@kellyjay saidThis isn't what the allegory in the OP is about. Nothing remotely like this was said about Chris and Donna. It specifically said that they were happy and in love. It says nothing about their marriage not being "based on love". And there was nothing about it being a case of waiting till "something better" comes along.
I was saying that if the marriage is only as good up to something better comes, it isn't based on love.
@kellyjay saidTo me personally, because of my Catholic background, it means until death. But that doesn't mean I am going to say something as ridiculous as if the commitment ends then you were never committed. Chris and Donna were committed to each other and happily married for almost 25 years. Would it be a lie to say they were in love 15 years ago? No. Would it be a lie to say they were committed 15 years ago? No.
If you are committed, what does that mean to you? Up to when you are not?
@kellyjay saidI perceived you as running away from an adult allegory that made your allegory seem distinctly half-baked and numb to the reality of faith.
I was pestering you with questions trying to get you to make what you were saying to make sense to me; you asked for thoughts; you didn't say preapproved thoughts that only looked at this analogy the way you wanted.
@fmf saidIt is either true or not. If it was never true, it never was.
This form of "knowing someone" - here in the lives we live - is totally different from the "knowing someone" [i.e. Jesus] that occurs with faith.
This makes your analogy a dud ~ and borderline sophistry, in fact, to my way of thinking.
See the OP to this thread instead.
@fmf saidThoughts happen when we look at something and think about what was written. What it was about to you and me was not the same thing, and I asked questions that could get me to where we could agree; you saw that as a character deficiency, I guess.
This isn't what the allegory in the OP is about. Nothing remotely like this was said about Chris and Donna. It specifically said that they were happy and in love. It says nothing about their marriage not being "based on love". And there was nothing about it being a case of waiting till "something better" comes along.
@fmf saidIf a commitment were real, it would endure anything; a breaking of faith of one being uncommitted and betraying of faith and vows by infidelity is from scripture for a cause to divorce. Otherwise, our faith is based on the fidelity of each other and should endure if it's true love and commitment. A feeling is fleeting; it comes and goes wherever the wind takes it. Again, how you define love matters!
To me personally, because of my Catholic background, it means until death. But that doesn't mean I am going to say something as ridiculous as if the commitment ends then you were never committed. Chris and Donna were committed to each other and happily married for almost 25 years. Would it be a lie to say they were in love 15 years ago? No. Would it be a lie to say they were committed 15 years ago? No.
@kellyjay saidI have "experiential knowledge" of faith. Your contention that it supernaturally transforms you and in so doing makes faith only comprehensible to those who profess it = the emperor's rhetorical birthday suit.
Thoughts happen when we look at something and think about what was written. What it was about to you and me was not the same thing, and I asked questions that could get me to where we could agree; you saw that as a character deficiency, I guess.
@kellyjay saidI think this is something from your ideological petri dish. In the real world, in real human beings' marriages, commitment can last for 5 years, or 15 years, 25 years, or 50 years and can sometimes be broken nevertheless. It does not mean they were not "real". Love, like faith, can fade and eventually be lost. We are human beings, KellyJay, not androids.
If a commitment were real, it would endure anything.
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@kellyjay saidThere is nothing about "infidelity" in the OP's allegory.
a breaking of faith of one being uncommitted and betraying of faith and vows by infidelity is from scripture for a cause to divorce. Otherwise, our faith is based on the fidelity of each other and should endure if it's true love and commitment.
I don't have any reason to believe that your faith is any more or less "true" than mine was in, say, 1980, or 1985, or 1990, or 1995, or 2000.
For you to insist otherwise is just you doubling down into some form of self-mythologizing with a generous sprinkle of narcissism thrown on top.
@kellyjay saidYou saw that as a character deficiency, I guess.
Thoughts happen when we look at something and think about what was written. What it was about to you and me was not the same thing, and I asked questions that could get me to where we could agree; you saw that as a character deficiency, I guess.
I think you have been in Intermittent Low Integrity Mode for a couple of months now, KellyJay. You became like this the last two times you suddenly went into a huff and stopped talking to me for a year or so.
I fully expect you to shut up shop again soon and if the alternative is that you would merely continue with the way you have been conducting yourself [these last two months or so], then I'd probably welcome it.
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@fmf saidI don't think you see the difference between saying I'm in love and I will love you till the day I die.
You saw that as a character deficiency, I guess.
I think you have been in Intermittent Low Integrity Mode for a couple of months now, KellyJay. You became like this the last two times you suddenly went into a huff and stopped talking to me for a year or so.
I fully expect you to shut up shop again soon and if the alternative is that you would merely continue with the way you have been conducting yourself [these last two months or so], then I'd probably welcome it.
@kellyjay saidSomeone saying - and meaning - with all their heart - that they will love someone until the day they die does not mean that they actually WILL love them till the day they die. We are human beings, KellyJay.
I don't think you see the difference between saying I'm in love and I will love you till the day I die.