Originally posted by robbie carrobieyou are not getting this FMF, i am stating that the works themselves, not that our acts are validation of our teaching
Your "works" are your "acts". Same thing. They no more vaildate your belief than they validate the beliefs of anyone else who helps others.
you are arguing against helping people seek freedom from vice, why is that?
No I am not.
If our teaching really is setting people free from vice
then its a validation in itself which you cannot deny. If people are coming to an accurate knowledge of truth in connection with Jesus Christ then you cannot state with any certainty that they are not being made wise for salvation , can you.
I know that this is what you believe. But Muslims and atheists and Buddhists set themselves straight because of their religious faith too. It's not just a Jehovah's Witness thing.
Originally posted by FMFThe Lord Jesus said, “Continue to love your enemies.” (Matt. 5:44, NW) And he also
A few minutes ago, when asked point blank, you said you personally endorsed the article.
said, “Every kind of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy
against the spirit will not be forgiven. For example, whoever speaks a word against
the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it
will not be forgiven him, no, not in the present system of things nor in that to
come.” (Matt. 12:31, 32, NW) Men may condemn us and still may be forgiven. We do
not love them for their hurtful works to us, but there must not be hatred toward
them on this account. Rather the commandment is to pray for such persons. But the
situation is entirely different when opposers get to a state of antagonism against
God and the spirit, so that even regardless of the facts in evidence of Jehovah’s
workmanship and power, they distort them and accuse God of wickedness. Such
extreme debasement is only identifying them with Satan the great opposer whose
end is destruction. Satan is our enemy and he is also God’s enemy. The Lord Jesus
was not calling upon us to love those who hated God. His own course of conduct is
our guide. When tempted by the Devil he said: ‘Go away Satan, for it is written, It is
Jehovah your God you must worship.’ Again he said, “That one was a manslayer
when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him.
. . . he is a liar and the father of the lie.” God has put enmity between the seed of
the woman and the seed of the serpent, and enmity means hostility or hatred. We
cannot therefore love this world, Satan, or his seed.—Luke 4:8; John 8:44, NW;
Gen. 3:15; Jas. 4:4; 1 John 2:15-17.
Haters of God and his people are to be hated, but this does not mean that we will
take any opportunity of bringing physical hurt to them in a spirit of malice or spite,
for both malice and spite belong to the Devil, whereas pure hatred does not. We
must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion,
to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not
fit to live on his beautiful earth. The earth will be rid of the wicked and we shall not
need to lift a finger to cause physical harm to come to them, for God will attend to
that, but we must have a proper perspective of these enemies. His name signifies
recompense to the enemies.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou just suggested that the article is a mistake. So now you do endorse it after all?
Oh dear it seems that our friend is rather fond, like all apostates of taking things out of
context and trying to ascribe values to us on this basis, i do fully endorse the article
after actually having read the whole, something our friend could not do because as
usual he has lifted it from a hate site that he likes to frequent, oh dear, anothe ...[text shortened]... termed, prejudice, I produce the whole below, demonstrating that our friend
had not read it.
Originally posted by FMFno the works are the outworking of the application of the knowledge, what it produces
[b]you are not getting this FMF, i am stating that the works themselves, not that our acts are validation of our teaching
Your "works" are your "acts". Same thing. They no more vaildate your belief than they validate the beliefs of anyone else who helps others.
you are arguing against helping people seek freedom from vice, why is that?
No I ...[text shortened]... es straight because of their religious faith too. It's not just a Jehovah's Witness thing.[/b]
in other people, righteous fruitage, cleaning living, freedom from vice, etc, you cant
touch this FMF.
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Originally posted by FMFyes because i had not read it all, for it was quoted only in part and represented a
You just suggested that the article is a mistake. So now you do endorse it after all?
rather biased view, anyone can read the whole and see this for themselves. My
original statement was made without actually having looked at the article, have i not
made this clear enough to you that you are once again seeking to be petty about it, oh
dear, is it really the best you can do. Far more serious is the posters lifting material
from hate sights without actually reading the article, how do we know that he did not
read the article, because it mentions those very things he found objection with, Christ's
statement to love ones enemies, another one caught red handed lifting material from
hate sights without reading the quotation in context, oh dear oh dear oh dear!
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieThis logic applies to anyone who brings their faith to bear upon their efforts to improve themselves. It is not an exclusively Jehovah's Witness thing. What you believe about yourself and what you do, for the reasons that you do, is no more "certified" than my reasons for doing similar things or my Muslim neighbour's spiritual rationale for working towards "righteous fruitage".
no the works are the outworking of the application of the knowledge, what it produces
in other people, righteous fruitage, cleaning living, freedom from vice, etc, you cant
touch this FMF.
Originally posted by FMFalas it was only a fleeting and momentary instance because of the deceptive trickery of
For a moment there you showed a willingness to doubt and dissent.
the originator of the claim, its what apostates do, they take a quotation out of context
and twist it to their evil machinations, meh, let the haters hate.
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Originally posted by FMFNot so, Christianity is not solely concerned with personal salvation, never was, it is
This logic applies to anyone who brings their faith to bear upon their efforts to improve themselves. It is not an exclusively Jehovah's Witness thing. What you believe about yourself and what you do, for the reasons that you do, is no more "certified" than my reasons for doing similar things or my Muslim neighbour's spiritual rationale for working towards "righteous fruitage".
embroiled in humanity. Unles you Muslim friend accepts the ransom sacrifice of the
Christ (of which he has no concept) then how can he be made wise for salvation due to
an accurate knowledge of the Christ? Thus Christianity is not solely concerned with the
here and now, but offers protection for the future as well, you cannot , despite your
best efforts, hope to offer salvation to anyone, can you?
Originally posted by robbie carrobiedivegeester is an apostate?
alas it was only a fleeting and momentary instance because of the deceptive trickery of
the originator of the claim, its what apostates do, they take a quotation out of context
and twist it to their evil machinations, meh, let the haters hate.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe full quote is every bit as horrendous as the snippet that drew attention to its existence.
alas it was only a fleeting and momentary instance because of the deceptive trickery of
the originator of the claim, its what apostates do, they take a quotation out of context
and twist it to their evil machinations, meh, let the haters hate.