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Originally posted by Welsh invaderWell I have said many times I think religions are the biggest man made scam of all time.
Faith without works is dead (James 2:20)
I don't know whats up with "D" I think, he thinks I am someone who may have been on this site in recent months or years.
I believe our chats about that matter are over now!
What Bible do you read from, I use the KJV.
I don't believe in the trinity. Jesus is Gods Son, but I don't believe they are one.
The fact one religion is at loggerheads with another, with religious wars shows me no god would set up such a cruel system.
The religious set poo poo's all that, saying, well, those other religions, they are the work of the devil.
Some god you would have there that can't strike down one lousy fallen angel.
When I read it I read the KJV,
But it's still a scam, written by men for the xpress purpose of control and to keep women on the lower rung of society.
BTW, I was raised in the Lutheran church, went to Lutheran school K-8. Although I think we got a good education, they crammed the Catechism down our throats every day.
I got rescued via my grandmother. She was Pentacostal, a pretty nutter religion.
When I was 8 she said I would be damned and die in hell if I didn't get the full dunking method of Pentacostal baptism.
I reluctantly agreed, grandma was thrilled but it was then I noticed some real problems with this religion thing, like why would I be damned in hell for not getting a full dunking baptism and instead got the sprinkle thing of Catholics and Lutherans and others.
I saw even at that age something was seriously wrong with the whole shooting match of religion and the more I read about it the more I was convinced there was no god involved. God was made in man's image. God to be feared, I am a jealous god. What a croc of shyte. There is this deity, way, way above the attributes of any human, JEALOUS? What kind of crap is that they try to feed us?
Why can't people see through this obvious scam?
Like a dude has an ant colony and he sees some of them he likes and others, he is JEALOUS of?
You get the analogy? God being jealous of humans=man being jealous of ants? Come on.
Originally posted by Welsh invaderThe KJV clearly teaches that there is a triune Godhead consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. You apparently haven't been reading your Holy Bible.
Faith without works is dead (James 2:20)
I don't know whats up with "D" I think, he thinks I am someone who may have been on this site in recent months or years.
I believe our chats about that matter are over now!
What Bible do you read from, I use the KJV.
I don't believe in the trinity. Jesus is Gods Son, but I don't believe they are one.
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Originally posted by RJHindsCurrently I am reading a book by Stuart Olyott "Jesus is both God and Man"
The KJV clearly teaches that there is a triune Godhead consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. You apparently haven't been reading your Holy Bible.
Stuart was a priest and he likes writing books about the trinity.
In this book which I am reading Stuart is implying that human flesh is in heaven, but at 1 Corinthians 15:50 this sripture shows us that flesh cannot enter heaven.
Anyway about the trinity. I don't believe in the trinity. I believe Jesus was created a long time ago by God.
Look at Micah 5:2 about Christ "who's origin is from of old from anciant days
But in his book at page 29 Stuart used the same Bible as me the KJV and Sturat says that Micah 5:2 states about Christ "going forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Christ's origin is from anciant days which means he has a starting point
Stuart has changed the words of Micah to suit his own needs (sell books and make lots of money)
I lent this book off someone who thinks they can convert me!
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Originally posted by Welsh invaderNo one doubts that human flesh and blood is corruptible and is unsuitable for Heaven. However, I believe apostle Paul also stated that the perishable flesh is to be changed to the imperishable and become immortal. Read a little more and see.
Currently I am reading a book by Stuart Olyott "Jesus is both God and Man"
Stuart was a priest and he likes writing books about the trinity.
In this book which I am reading Stuart is implying that human flesh is in heaven, but at 1 Corinthians 15:50 this sripture shows us that flesh cannot enter heaven.
Anyway about the trinity. I don't believe in t ...[text shortened]... ll books and make lots of money)
I lent this book off someone who thinks they can convert me!
1 Corinthians 15:52-54 NASB
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
After Christ's resurrection His human flesh was obviously changed into an imperisable flesh that was able to ascend into heaven.
Luke 24:36-40 NASB)
While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, "Peace be to you." But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.
Christ with His resurrected body was received up into heaven.
Acts 1:9-12 NASB
And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."
Mark also makes mention of Jesus ascending into heaven.
Mark 16:19 NASB
So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
So it seems clear that once the flesh is changed and becomes imperishable like that of the resurrected Christ then Heaven is an inheritance of the believers as well.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 NASB
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
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Originally posted by sonhouseI agree with some things which you mention. The most important to me is about the religions which are being RUN by the devil
Well I have said many times I think religions are the biggest man made scam of all time.
The fact one religion is at loggerheads with another, with religious wars shows me no god would set up such a cruel system.
The religious set poo poo's all that, saying, well, those other religions, they are the work of the devil.
Some god you would have there ...[text shortened]... OUS of?
You get the analogy? God being jealous of humans=man being jealous of ants? Come on.
The Bible mentions this and that there is one true religion and so I am standing back and not joining any religion until I discover the true religion.
Any religion who believes in a trinity are not true as far as I understand.
These people actualy go into Church and worship statues and images when the Bible clearly says that doing this is not good.
Originally posted by Welsh invaderThe Protestant Churches do not promote the worship of statues and images. I was raised in a Church of Christ and mainly the Baptist Church and they do not promote the worship of statues and images as you claim. 😏
I agree with some things which you mention. The most important to me is about the religions which are being RUN by the devil
The Bible mentions this and that there is one true religion and so I am standing back and not joining any religion until I discover the true religion.
Any religion who believes in a trinity are not true as far as I understa ...[text shortened]... o Church and worship statues and images when the Bible clearly says that doing this is not good.
Originally posted by RJHindsWhat about the Trinity, that was our main issue.
No one doubts that human flesh and blood is corruptible and is unsuitable for Heaven. However, I believe apostle Paul also stated that the perishable flesh is to be changed to the imperishable and become immortal. Read a little more and see.1 Corinthians 15:52-54 NASB
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet ...[text shortened]... this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Micah 5:2
Originally posted by RJHindsIt says that Christ's origin is of old from anciant days. Which means Christ has a starting point.
I see Micah 5:2 as a reference to the Messiah and King, not to proving the Trinity. 😏
What I previously said was that I dont believe in the trinity and I am showing you one of the many reasons as to why there is no trinity.
I agree with you in that Micah 5:2 is a reference about Jesus, but it is saying where he is from.
I previously pointed out that a priest wrote a book and changed the words of Micah 5:2 to make it look as if Jesus is from everlasting.
Originally posted by Welsh invaderSo why, if you never do works, are you so obsessed with religion? You seem to be living in a world inhabited by demons and devils.
It says that Christ's origin is of old from anciant days. Which means Christ has a starting point.
What I previously said was that I dont believe in the trinity and I am showing you one of the many reasons as to why there is no trinity.
I agree with you in that Micah 5:2 is a reference about Jesus, but it is saying where he is from.
I previous ...[text shortened]... wrote a book and changed the words of Micah 5:2 to make it look as if Jesus is from everlasting.
Everything I said just rolled off your ears I guess.
You just go along with the big scam.
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Originally posted by sonhouseI am not ignoring you
So why, if you never do works, are you so obsessed with religion? You seem to be living in a world inhabited by demons and devils.
Everything I said just rolled off your ears I guess.
You just go along with the big scam.
I am waiting for an answer a responce from
RJHinds
But yes I am living a life which is full of devils, bad angels scum bags and RJHides.... He hides from our conversation!
Originally posted by Welsh invaderAs I understand it, Micah 5:2 was the verse quoted by the priests for King Herod the Great to the Magi that came asking "where was He that was born King of the Jews" in their journey to find the Messiah. It indicates that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem Ephrathah of Judah.
It says that Christ's origin is of old from anciant days. Which means Christ has a starting point.
What I previously said was that I dont believe in the trinity and I am showing you one of the many reasons as to why there is no trinity.
I agree with you in that Micah 5:2 is a reference about Jesus, but it is saying where he is from.
I previous ...[text shortened]... wrote a book and changed the words of Micah 5:2 to make it look as if Jesus is from everlasting.
Micah 5:2 KJV
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
I believe one of the more accurate translations in modern English is the New American Standard Bible and here is how it translates Micah 5:2.
Micah 5:2 NASB
"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."
I never thought of this before as being something to prove the trinity. However, it does seem to tie in well with John's gospel that begins with the Word that was God in the beginning and later became born as the flesh and blood only begotten Son of God. And of course, this was Jesus the Messiah.
Originally posted by RJHindsYou previously informed me that you use the KJV
As I understand it, Micah 5:2 was the verse quoted by the priests for King Herod the Great to the Magi that came asking "where was He that was born King of the Jews" in their journey to find the Messiah. It indicates that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem Ephrathah of Judah.
[quote]Micah 5:2 KJV
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little a ...[text shortened]... orn as the flesh and blood only begotten Son of God. And of course, this was Jesus the Messiah.
So now say what is says in that Bible!
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Welsh Invader, I gather you are waiting for discussion about this comment of your's:
It says that Christ's origin is of old from anciant days. Which means Christ has a starting point.
What I previously said was that I dont believe in the trinity and I am showing you one of the many reasons as to why there is no trinity.
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So you have many reasons.
If this the most significant reason of the many?
Or is your strongest reason still awaiting to be seen ?
Micah 5:2 in my Recovery Version says that His goings forth are from ... days of eternity.
"(But you, O Bethlehem Ephrarhah ... From you there will come forth to Me He who is to be Ruler in Israel;
And His goings forth are from ancient times, From the days of eternity.)"
1.) I don't see "origin" from days of eternity. I see "goings forth are from ... days of eternity"
2.) If I DID read "origins" from days of eternity, it would hardly be conclusive that this One is not eternally everlasting, as if He had a starting point. His "origin" in eternity hardly insists that He had a beginning.
3.) It says of God also that He is from eternity to eternity in Psalm 90:2
"Before the mountains were brought forth, And before You gave birth to the earth and the world,
Indeed from eternity to eternity You are God."
The Ruler in Israel (Micah 5:2) and God (Psalm 90:2) both are said to have a past in eternity. If you argue that the Ruler in Israel must have had a finite point of origin, then you should also argue that God does as well.
It is not at all a problem to me because I know that the one born in Bethlehem is God incarnate.
I agree with you in that Micah 5:2 is a reference about Jesus, but it is saying where he is from.
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It says where His going forths are from in my RcV.
Christ as the Angel of Jehovah was going forth in the Old Testament in many places before He was incarnated and born in Bethlehem as Jesus.
So as the prophecy says, His going forths have been from ancient times, from days of eternity.
I previously pointed out that a priest wrote a book and changed the words of Micah 5:2 to make it look as if Jesus is from everlasting.
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Where is a discussion on that ?
Cont. below