Originally posted by whodey Does a parent not discipline their child when they "sin"?
Those that don't are not loving.
I teach my children about morality and sometimes I punish them. I don't teach them about or discipline them for "sin" of course. If they want to subscribe to notions of "sin" and "sinning" later in life they will be free to do that and will be able to evaluate the "sin" concept in the light of their morally sound upbringing. 🙂
Originally posted by KellyJay I don't believe going to God should be done to avoid Hell, I believe we
should do it, because it is the right thing to do, and He is worthy.
Kelly
Considering the atrocities of century 20, what makes you think this alleged god is 'worthy'?
Originally posted by FMF Do you believe that genuine and pure "love" can be extorted from people by a God figure using threats of unimaginably extreme and vengeful violence?
Do you mean the threats of unimaginable extreme and vengeful violence in the Quaran?
Originally posted by Dasa Do you mean the threats of unimaginable extreme and vengeful violence in the Quaran?
The "unimaginable extreme and vengeful violence" I am referring to is the threat of being tortured in burning agony for eternity in "Hell" for being an unbeliever and/or "sinner", which is an ideology subscribed to by some but not all Christians. There is a similar point of contention within Islam about the concept of "eternal torment". However, there are no Muslims here to discuss that, so my discussion is with the Christians who do/don't believe in "eternal torture" and who participate in this forum.
Originally posted by FMF The "unimaginable extreme and vengeful violence" I am referring to is the threat of being tortured in burning agony for eternity in "Hell" for being an unbeliever and/or "sinner", which is an ideology subscribed to by some but not all Christians. There is a similar point of contention within Islam about the concept of "eternal torment". However, there are no Mus ...[text shortened]... with the Christians who do/don't believe in "eternal torture" and who participate in this forum.
I know exactly what you mean.............and I will say it again but a bit differenty.
Will people gain pure and genuine love of God by becoming a Muslim and then inflicting unimaginable extreme and vengeful violence on the non Muslims? because there is no need to die and go to hell to experience unimaginable extreme and vengeful violence.......when all you have to do is live amongst the Muslims.
The answer is NO........you cannot gain Love for God in these circumstances...........ever ever ever.
Originally posted by Dasa Will people gain pure and genuine love of God by becoming a Muslim and then inflicting unimaginable extreme and vengeful violence on the non Muslims? because there is no need to die and go to hell to experience unimaginable extreme and vengeful violence.......when all you have to do is live amongst the Muslims.
Well I am neither a Muslim or a Christian, as you know, although I do live among Muslims here in the largest Muslim population country in the world ~ and have done so unscathed for almost a quarter of a century, on and off.
As I said before, the "unimaginable extreme and vengeful violence" I am referring to is the supposed threat of being tortured in burning agony for eternity in "Hell" for being an unbeliever and/or "sinner", which is a depraved ideology much worse than anything currently being put into practice in real life here on earth.
Originally posted by FMF I did not subscribe to the "eternal torture" theology when I was a Christian, if that's what you are asking about
The Idea of eternal torture may not be accurate. Jesus certainly mentions eternal punishment and eternal torment, however, torture is usually considered cruel and unusual. Jesus gives a parable that I have quoted below that indicates that the punishment varies.
Luke 12:35-48 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant
“Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning; and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately. Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them. And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”
Then Peter said to Him, “Lord, do You speak this parable only to us, or to all people?”
And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.
Being beaten with many or few stripes indicates varying degrees of punishment.
Originally posted by RJHinds The Idea of eternal torture may not be accurate. Jesus certainly mentions eternal punishment and eternal torment, however, torture is usually considered cruel and unusual. Jesus gives a parable that I have quoted below that indicates that the punishment varies.
Luke 12:35-48 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant
...[text shortened]... . [/quote]
Being beaten with many or few stripes indicates varying degrees of punishment.[/b]
FMF,
Why do you think God should let sin continue forever? Do you think that it is unloving to give a person a chance to accept Christ as Savior and when that person does not accept Christ as Savior, God should let that person live forever without accept Christ?
Why do you think that a person should live in sin forever? Why do you think that God will not put an end to this existence of human experience?
Originally posted by KingOnPoint FMF,
Why do you think God should let sin continue forever? Do you think that it is unloving to give a person a chance to accept Christ as Savior and when that person does not accept Christ as Savior, God should let that person live forever without accept Christ?
Why do you think that a person should live in sin forever? Why do you think that God will not put an end to this existence of human experience?
You appear to be asking me to explain something that is in your imagination. Why don't you ask somebody who imagines the same thing as you do to explain it rather than me? I have no reason to believe there is any such thing as "sin" except as a notion subscribed to and discussed by members of your religion.
FMF,
The reason I brought up the information below is to bring up the alternative that God letting sin continue forever rather than ending sin's presence in God's desire is the opposite of punishment forever. I am pointing out now that God will judge souls that don't want to be with Christ.
Do you believe that God will simply accept what He calls "sin," in the Bible? Lastly, eternal punishment is not mans' idea, but God's in the Bible. God's love for your soul will not override sin's end in God's presence.
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Why do you think God should let sin continue forever? Do you think that it is unloving to give a person a chance to accept Christ as Savior and when that person does not accept Christ as Savior, God should let that person live forever without accept Christ?
Why do you think that a person should live in sin forever? Why do you think that God will not put an end to this existence of human experience?
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08 Sep '14 11:09
"Eternal Torture" persuasion & genuine "love"
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