Evidence of Salvation

Originally posted by Wulebgr
I fully realize that some believers walk with their creator in faith and obedience, but an astounding number do vote Republican. Do you deny this?

No, but they vote for other parties too, again you have a point here?
Kelly

Originally posted by Wulebgr
[how can anyone calling herself (or himself) a Christian, vote for Republicans? Why vote at all?[/b]

Because Christians do not check their brains at the door of the voting booth.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Because Christians do not check their brains at the door of the voting booth.

[too easy]

Of course not, they left them in the vestibule of the church.

[/too easy]

Originally posted by KellyJay
I reject all parties as worthy as I said I thought it an insult to say
one was. You stressing your views on how bad the Republican party
was only agreed with my point! We as a people are not worthy of God
due to our sin nature, so our groups, no matter what they are, and
what we claim they stand for will not be God worthy.
Kelly

God is a left wing god. But his left-winginess transcends all left wing parties. It is a perfect left-winginess. It is a post-scarcity left-winginess. If you know what I mean.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Because Christians do not check their brains at the door of the voting booth.

Brains are not library books. If you're not already using it to capacity, checking one at the voting booth is too late.

Originally posted by rwingett
God is a left wing god. But his left-winginess transcends all left wing parties. It is a perfect left-winginess. It is a post-scarcity left-winginess. If you know what I mean.

No, God is a God of truth and justice as such you'll see left and right
wing *so called* ideas coming from God out of scripture. If I can say
God transcends all left wing winginess I can also say he does the
same with all right wing winginess. To again suggest God cares one
wit about our labels or L/Riness is silly. God is more of a plumb line
of truth that nether leans right or left but is a beacon of truth, He is
a solid foundation that does not change. Do not fool yourself thinking
God is on your parties side, He is not, neither is He on the parties
side you dislike.
Kelly

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Take a deep breath and think about it.

There is no claim of anything being "God worthy". No matter how much you insist there was, there just wasn't.

It seems this is likely a case analogous to someone going to a restaurant that serves chili and stew. The individual declares he doesn't like the chili and you start ranting about how they like stew. It ...[text shortened]... opposed. Is this what you're supporting?

Like I said, take a deep breath and think.

"If the Spirit of God fills believers, why do they vote Republican?"

I took this question as suggesting that the Spirit of God lead people to
vote for Republican. Which I said was an insult to God, and I would
have said the samething had he said God led people to vote for the
Democrats as well.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
"If the Spirit of God fills believers, why do they vote Republican?"

I took this question as suggesting that the Spirit of God lead people to
vote for Republican. Which I said was an insult to God, and I would
have said the samething had he said God led people to vote for the
Democrats as well.
Kelly

Let me rephrase the question:

Assuming that the Spirit of God causes believers to despise unrighteousness, how can they embrace, and enthusiastically proclaim in their churches the wisdom of this embrace, the party that kowtows to the insurance and pharmaceutical lobby's efforts to derail genuine health care improvements for our nation's working poor? How can they enthusiastically embrace a Holy War fought for access to oil? How can they make proposing a flat tax an article of faith?


It seems to me that Republicans should have a harder sell to those that love righteousness, yet American history through the past three decades reveal the opposite to be the case. Why do Republicans have such an easy time attracting self-proclaimed Christians?


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7: 21-23

How do we know who is among the Elect, or should we leave such questions to God? Should we be skeptical of all that claim the name of Jesus, especially if they are enthusiastic Republicans?

Originally posted by KellyJay
"If the Spirit of God fills believers, why do they vote Republican?"

I took this question as suggesting that the Spirit of God lead people to
vote for Republican. Which I said was an insult to God, and I would
have said the samething had he said God led people to vote for the
Democrats as well.
Kelly

It doesn't seem you took it correctly.

Like I said earlier:
"I'd guess that what he is questioning how anyone could both be filled with the "Spirit of God" and support the platform of the Republican party."

I don't see this as necessarily Republican vs. Democrat, rather as righteousness and the Republican party being irreconcilable.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Brains are not library books. If you're not already using it to capacity, checking one at the voting booth is too late.

The Voting preferences of a group of people who happen to vote primarily republican in no way makes them "less Christian." Any data gleaned from 2 such diverse pools is VAL-UE-LESS.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
It doesn't seem you took it correctly.

Like I said earlier:
"I'd guess that what he is questioning how anyone could both be filled with the "Spirit of God" and support the platform of the Republican party."

I don't see this as necessarily Republican vs. Democrat, rather as righteousness and the Republican party being irreconcilable.

You are suggesting that people filled with the Spirit of God cannot
attach themselves to any group that you believe has issues?

I have pointed out every one of our groups are flawed! They are
filled with flawed people, that includes all of our churches too. You
think there is some "perfect" human group/club/whatever that God
must accept?
Kelly

The last two posts by PinkFloyd and KellyJay both miss the core point: hundreds of thousands of self-professed Christians have embraced the Republican Party as the Party of God. Many churches have even become inhospitable to anyone refusing to espouse the central talking points of Republicans.

It is a historic fact that Republicans and modern American Christianity are two elements of the same central sense of true patriotism--one rooted in killing Muslims and Moose for oil, dispossessing Blacks and Latinos because they choose to be poor and the rich have earned their tax breaks, calling for tort reform as the single best reform of a health care system that has given the US a prestigious #37 ranking from the World Health Organization ( YouTube ).

I agree, KellyJay, that such political positioning is an insult to God. This convergence of interests between the NRA, GOP, and Bible churches is an established fact. I'm questioning how and why it makes religious sense because it seems to me that almost nothing Republicans espouse is consistent with genuine Christian faith.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
The last two posts by PinkFloyd and KellyJay both miss the core point: hundreds of thousands of self-professed Christians have embraced the Republican Party as the Party of God. Many churches have even become inhospitable to anyone refusing to espouse the central talking points of Republicans.

It is a historic fact that Republicans and modern American Chr ...[text shortened]... seems to me that almost nothing Republicans espouse is consistent with genuine Christian faith.

I have not missed your point, I choose to ignore it as meaningless!
The fact I keep pushing back to you is that ALL of our parties have
people of faith in them, even Spiritfilled! All of those parties have
things I find less than. Your bashing the Republican party just shows a
deep prejudce of yours in my opinion, I'm quite sure there are indeed
pockets of Republicans that are not hospitable as I'm quite sure there
are also pockets of Democrats that are the same way with those that
disagree with them as well. I'd be willing to bet there are those within
each party that view all of those in the other party as nasty to evil
people and have nothing worth while or good to say about the other
party at all, refusing to accept the notion there maybe good people
in the other party who just plain disagrees with them without those
same people doing so for some dark nasty reason.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I have not missed your point, I choose to ignore it as meaningless!
The fact I keep pushing back to you is that ALL of our parties have
people of faith in them, even Spiritfilled! All of those parties have
things I find less than. Your bashing the Republican party just shows a
deep prejudce of yours in my opinion, I'm quite sure there are indeed
pocket in disagrees with them without those
same people doing so for some dark nasty reason.
Kelly

Deep prejudice?

I've tried to be clear, but as you say, you ignore the major points and harp on the minors.

I am a historian. The connections between modern Republicanism and modern Christianity are FACT, probably to the detriment of both.

If there was a similar unholy alliance with the Green Party, the Democratic Party, the American Communist Party, or any other, I would be interested in that. But, since the late 1970s/early 1980s, Republicans have been able to bank on strong support from certain segments of American self-professed Christians.

I was hoping someone that believed both in Jesus and in Republican principles would be able to defend the logic of this alliance. KellyJay, you seem to want to pretend this alliance does not exist, so perhaps you should stick you head under tha sand in another box.

If it is meaningless, why do you return to the thread like a horny salmon returning to his place of birth.

I'm bashing neither Republicans, nor Christians. I'm inquiring why they seem to think they have a convergence of beliefs when the Bible condemns nearly everything central to the Republican platform.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Deep prejudice?

I've tried to be clear, but as you say, you ignore the major points and harp on the minors.

I am a historian. The connections between modern Republicanism and modern Christianity are FACT, probably to the detriment of both.

If there was a similar unholy alliance with the Green Party, the Democratic Party, the American Communist Part ...[text shortened]... ence of beliefs when the Bible condemns nearly everything central to the Republican platform.

Your minor points are the major ones as far as I'm concern.
Kelly