1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI completely disagree with the KKK and have an issue with any group
This isn't about the actions of some individuals in a given group such as "some people in say the Republican party that dislike our President
just for the color of his skin". It's also not about "completely
agree[ing] with all of [a given groups] foundational doctrines".
The real issue is whether or not the platform / agenda / foundational princip ...[text shortened]... ne such group. You haven't answered whether or not you believe the KKK is one such group.
that puts one group up or down just because of color.
Kelly
Originally posted by WulebgrSin and Christians are intimately entwined, so I need no reading lesson. You however, need a lesson in manners and common courtesy, which I freely volunteer my services to provide you the aforementioned....lesson.
You need a reading lesson:
Originally posted by Wulebgr
[b]If the Spirit of God fills believers, why do they vote Republican?
Let's try this. If the Spirit of God fills believers, why do they cheat on their husbands?
Why do so many, some, any? Why does sin continue after the filling of the Holy Spirit?
The only thing odd or unusual about the initial statement is the association of voting Republican with sin.[/b]
Originally posted by KellyJayYour response isn't explicit enough for me to be certain that you find "the platform / agenda / foundational principles / etc. of [the KKK is] so far removed from righteousness so as to be untenable", but I'll assume you do.
I completely disagree with the KKK and have an issue with any group
that puts one group up or down just because of color.
Kelly
All that's being said here is that ""the platform / agenda / foundational principles / etc. of [the Republican party is] so far removed from righteousness so as to be untenable".
If you indeed find the KKK to be such a group, I don't understand why you seem to take such strong exception to someone finding the Republican party to be such a group.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneFrankly I don't care if it is explicit enough for you or not.
Your response isn't explicit enough for me to be certain that you find "the platform / agenda / foundational principles / etc. of [the KKK is] so far removed from righteousness so as to be untenable", but I'll assume you do.
All that's being said here is that ""the platform / agenda / foundational principles / etc. of [the Republican party is] so far ...[text shortened]... take such strong exception to someone finding the Republican party to be such a group.
Kelly
2 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayThat wasn't the point of my post. I was trying to be fair to your position and let you know why I was making an assumption. If it is an incorrect assumption, then just say so.
Frankly I don't care if it is explicit enough for you or not.
Kelly
I'm trying to understand you. Why the hostility?
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNo hostility, just honesty I'm not sure why you felt the need for me
That wasn't the point of my post. I was trying to be fair to your position and let you know why I was making an assumption. If it is an incorrect assumption, then just say so.
I'm trying to understand you. Why the hostility?
to say the KKK was bad, and wasn't very happy when you seemed to
suggest I didn't express that in strong enough terms for you liking.
Kelly
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne"All that's being said here is that ""the platform / agenda / foundational principles / etc. of [the Republican party is] so far removed from righteousness so as to be untenable". "
Your response isn't explicit enough for me to be certain that you find "the platform / agenda / foundational principles / etc. of [the KKK is] so far removed from righteousness so as to be untenable", but I'll assume you do.
All that's being said here is that ""the platform / agenda / foundational principles / etc. of [the Republican party is] so far ...[text shortened]... take such strong exception to someone finding the Republican party to be such a group.
I don't see the Republican party that way, but I do see some of it
as less than with respect to righteousness, I feel much the same way
about the Democratic party platforms ect, and for me there are
deal breakers as in abortions and its stance against individuals
in farvor of groups. I will acknowledge that I do not find individual
people who are Democrats any less than I do republicans.
I will say that since I view all of mankind as a fallen race of sinners
I hold both groups as dangerous if they achive to much power.
Kelly
Originally posted by PinkFloydWow! Pointing out that your argument is flawed because you grossly misrepresent what I wrote means I need some manners?
Sin and Christians are intimately entwined, so I need no reading lesson. You however, need a lesson in manners and common courtesy, which I freely volunteer my services to provide you the aforementioned....lesson.
Either you deliberately misrepresented what I wrote--a fine example of manners--or you needed the correction, which you could accept with grace if you have even the slimmest understanding of the social protocol in which you are offering your services as an authority.
Originally posted by KellyJayI've already mentioned the abortion issue as one that turned many Christians against Democrats, but many Democrats despise abortion, but resist imposing their personal beliefs upon those that do not share their perspective.
I feel much the same way about the Democratic party platforms etc, and for me there are deal breakers as in abortions and its stance against individuals in farvor of groups.
Individualism, too, is one I think I've touched upon. I do not see anything in the Bible that supports the individualism that has become a core principle of modern Republicanism. Indeed, in the 1960s, when Conservatism was being molded and shaped towards its present Libertarian ideology by the likes of Frank Meyer and other Hayek disciples, individualism was criticized by some traditional Conservatives as decidedly unChristian.
That debate has been forgotten by all except historians, but perhaps some of RHP's Christian posters could illuminate how individualism is a Christian principle when everything Jesus taught appeared to emphasize concern and care for one another--collective values. Likewise, the OT is so oppressively tribal that any support from there for individualism must ignore context.
Indeed, the Democratic interest in groups as well as individuals appears on my reading to be grounded in biblical principles, especially the teachings of Jesus.
Originally posted by WulebgrWhat are you looking for here, a discussion on which flawed group
I've already mentioned the abortion issue as one that turned many Christians against Democrats, but many Democrats despise abortion, but resist imposing their personal beliefs upon those that do not share their perspective.
Individualism, too, is one I think I've touched upon. I do not see anything in the Bible that supports the individualism that has bec ...[text shortened]... pears on my reading to be grounded in biblical principles, especially the teachings of Jesus.
the Rep or Dem is closer to the truth found in scripture? The only
truth that matters is found in God alone, not in our political parties,
church denominations, clubs, and so on. I’m not going to enter into
a discussion on justifying my political party, as I have already pointed
out I think it is lacking and would agree with you every time you
pointed out a flaw in it, as I don’t want to bash the Democrats either
for the same reason, I believe you can be a good democrat and as
far as being caring person goes be as nice and anyone else, being
either a Democrat or Republican does not rob you of righteousness,
sin does.
Kelly
3 edits
Originally posted by Wulebgr
Wow! Pointing out that your argument is flawed because you grossly misrepresent what I wrote means I need some manners?
Correct.
Either you deliberately misrepresented what I wrote--a fine example of manners--or you needed the correction...
OR you were incorrect and I didn't misrepresent anything. In any case, you obviously never ...[text shortened]... criticize others. Ever. Not "constructively", or "with love" or any other way.
Originally posted by KellyJayI'd like to see a biblical defense of individualism, if one is possible.
What are you looking for here, ...
A strong ideology of individualism is at the core of the Republicans' reprehensible record on race since 1968, their opposition to the Great Society programs of the Johnson era, and their continuous assault on most forms of social spending, some dating to FDR's New Deal.
I'm not arguing that the Democrats have been putting forward a platform that necessarily conforms to the teachings of Jesus, only that the Republican platform is at such significant variance from the clearly communitarian principles of Jesus' teachings, that to vote Republican (exceptions might be tolerable on an individual case) is repugnant to the conscience.
Originally posted by PinkFloydSo, I should conclude that a person with manners does not correct error.
Originally posted by Wulebgr
Wow! Pointing out that your argument is flawed because you grossly misrepresent what I wrote means I need some manners?
Correct.
That's ridiculous. I attack your ideas, not you as a person, nor your egregious typing, spelling, grammar, and other indications of minimal literacy.
You attributed to me something I did not say. I called you on it, and you reiterated your point with a flawed explanation. I showed how your logic was a case of misreading, and offered another version of my original question to clarify.
Having lost the argument, you attacked me as one without manners.
Originally posted by WulebgrWhy should I attempt to give you reasons to go against your
I'd like to see a biblical defense of individualism, if one is possible.
A strong ideology of individualism is at the core of the Republicans' reprehensible record on race since 1968, their opposition to the Great Society programs of the Johnson era, and their continuous assault on most forms of social spending, some dating to FDR's New Deal.
I'm not ...[text shortened]... lican (exceptions might be tolerable on an individual case) is repugnant to the conscience.
conscience with respect to those things you find repugnant when I'm
most certainly not going to vote for a Democrat against my conscience
when there are things about the Democrat's stance I find equally
repugnant?
Kelly
Originally posted by WulebgrIndividualism, meaning God finds us equally important as individuals?
I'd like to see a biblical defense of individualism, if one is possible.
A strong ideology of individualism is at the core of the Republicans' reprehensible record on race since 1968, their opposition to the Great Society programs of the Johnson era, and their continuous assault on most forms of social spending, some dating to FDR's New Deal.
I'm not ...[text shortened]... lican (exceptions might be tolerable on an individual case) is repugnant to the conscience.
Kelly