@bigdoggproblem saidOh, I want to answer this.
See, I find this post difficult to swallow.
Faith cannot be completely free of overlap from observation and evidence. If it were, it would have absolutely no grounding in anything remotely connected to anything real people experience in real life.
The decision to take a claim seriously, FAR from being a simple "free-will" decision, is based on an evaluation of th ...[text shortened]... the result of the outcome. At best, we can try to pretend we did not actually reach THAT evaluation.
Consider this a kind of "placeholder", I'll get back to this after work tonight.
@galveston75 saidDogs and cats have fleshy bodies, but not souls. This is established Christian doctrine. Try again.
Here you go. According to the bible, not most religions, the soul is the human body. It is our flesh, or our bodies. As this will show at the end is where the teaching of the body living on after death is not correct. It is not ever supported in the Bible and in fact the soul or our flesh is very mortal.
"The word “soul” in the Bible is a translation of the Hebrew wo ...[text shortened]... an tradition.”—Colossians 2:8. "Bible questions answered"
So a soul is you, your fleshly body.
@kellyjay saidWell, that's an entirely fair question. We don't actually know what gravity is but we do observe what it does. What it does is attract massive bodies. Current thinking in physics is that gravity may be a form of energy, or it may be a property of massive bodies.
What is a soul?
Tell me what gravity is, tell me what energy is!
What is energy? Energy is the capacity to produce change.
Your turn. What's a soul?
@moonbus saidWhat it does as in what it does right now.
Well, that's an entirely fair question. We don't actually know what gravity is but we do observe what it does. What it does is attract massive bodies. Current thinking in physics is that gravity may be a form of energy, or it may be a property of massive bodies.
What is energy? Energy is the capacity to produce change.
Your turn. What's a soul?
Hmmmm, yeah that really has to do with things that we can not see happen.
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@bigdoggproblem saidWhen it comes to religion, social conditioning has a huge influence. If you are born and raised into a Christian family and community then the chances are you ain't going to convert to Islam when you grow up, but will go with that which you inherit. I think that in Britain and northern Europe in general the influence isn't that strong, and people like myself can easily let go of it (My parents were 'Christian' but, you know, only on paper) In America the influence is much stronger, I think, and it's a harder thing to break. This is just my impression, I could be wrong....
See, I find this post difficult to swallow.
Faith cannot be completely free of overlap from observation and evidence. If it were, it would have absolutely no grounding in anything remotely connected to anything real people experience in real life.
The decision to take a claim seriously, FAR from being a simple "free-will" decision, is based on an evaluation of th ...[text shortened]... the result of the outcome. At best, we can try to pretend we did not actually reach THAT evaluation.
Edit; And I'm generalizing, of course.
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@indonesia-phil saidSo your parents were not really Christians at all and you turned out like them.
When it comes to religion, social conditioning has a huge influence. If you are born and raised into a Christian family and community then the chances are you ain't going to convert to Islam when you grow up, but will go with that which you inherit. I think that in Britain and northern Europe in general the influence isn't that strong, and people like myself can easily ...[text shortened]... to break. This is just my impression, I could be wrong....
Edit; And I'm generalizing, of course.
@galveston75 saidIt's not that I don't believe anything the Bible says. I am quite willing to believe that an itinerant preacher traveled about Galilee and taught "Love God and love thy neighbour as thyself" and drew large crowds and got into trouble with the local rabbinical authorities for preaching in temples. Those bits are entirely plausible because there were many gurus and holy men around in those days preaching all kinds of things; similar things are attested by other ancient sources as well, and some of their tales and doctrines have been independently verified (e.g., the Nag Hammadi Library, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeological finds relating to Essene and gnostic communities, etc. etc.).
Yep, typical "don't believe everything the bible says" silliness you create.
It's the fantastical bits of the Jesus-story which cry out for independent verification: the claim of virgin birth, for example, the claim of resurrection, for another.
@bigdoggproblem saidSpeaking as a dumb atheist I would just like to express my agreement.
Most things in life lack an "iron-clad" proof.
That being said, I will admit that the "god" question is very difficult, and reasonable people almost certainly will get different answers.
I've just met waaaay too many smart theists to think that only stupid people believe in god. [I've also met some dumb atheists, as well]
@bigdoggproblem saidWell said.
Faith cannot be completely free of overlap from observation and evidence. If it were, it would have absolutely no grounding in anything remotely connected to anything real people experience in real life.
The decision to take a claim seriously, FAR from being a simple "free-will" decision, is based on an evaluation of the claim, and how strong [or weak] it is.
...[text shortened]... the result of the outcome. At best, we can try to pretend we did not actually reach THAT evaluation.
If I may paraphrase an observation from Joseph Campbell: religion must be at least roughly consistent with what is known about how nature works, otherwise it's superstition.
@eladar saidIn a way, yes, although they sent me to Sunday School and later to church, so the influence was there. My point is that it was never really a heavy indoctrination, and I was able to reject all religion and put myself in a place of intellectual neutrality. If I were a Christian I think I would question why that was. i.e. Am I a Christian just because my parents and peers are/were Christian? If I had been born in Istanbul, chances are I'd have been a Muslim. It's really all about geography, isn't it?
So your parents were not really Christians at all and you turned out like them.
@indonesia-phil saidIn a way yes is yes. Being sent to church for social reasons is no reason to go to church, though for most it is the case.
In a way, yes, although they sent me to Sunday School and later to church, so the influence was there. My point is that it was never really a heavy indoctrination, and I was able to reject all religion and put myself in a place of intellectual neutrality. If I were a Christian I think I would question why that was. i.e. Am I a Christian just because my parents and peer ...[text shortened]... een born in Istanbul, chances are I'd have been a Muslim. It's really all about geography, isn't it?
You did not give up your upbringing, you simply embraced it convincing yourself you made a choice.