@kellyjay said
Have had this conversation here before, and those that support your point of view will more than likely join you, I reject it totally. You even reject it, showing how it is self-contradictory in nature. You cannot say everyone’s views are equally valid for them, then pronounce a view that prohibits others from denying other’s validity of their beliefs! Either all views are ...[text shortened]... annot tell me that there are rules in keeping all views valid while setting up rules that deny that.

All religions preach charity and brotherly love as the single most important thing in someones life. This is the way to the Kingdom of God. Jesus said the same thing. You and your doctrine of mouth worship is the road the damnation.

@bigdoggproblem said
"Backfilling" is a terrible intellectual habit. See a therapist about breaking it.

Most especially when the material one uses to "backfill" usually in no way resembles the original material.

Most just call that "lying".

@bigdoggproblem said
This is a great post. Thanks so much for taking the time to be thoughtful and willing to express it.

Yes, the approach to life is subjective! I strongly believe that there is not one "right" spiritual path for all people. In your case, I would say that you have found a good spiritual path for yourself. You feel engaged with something larger than yourself. You ...[text shortened]... ow. Most of them are subjective, of the kind that help us get through our lives in a meaningful way.

I agree. Connecting with something bigger is what we're meant to do. "No man is an island." No one can do everything by himself. Even though I have a sense of a "higher purpose", I still like to remind myself to stay "grounded". And yes, everyone's spiritual paths are different, some slightly, some fundamentally. But I say everyone's path brings them to the same "chokepoints". Meaning, there are some truths that can be considered "common", in that all religions face them. Most consider a deity, a higher being, and figuring out where your faith lies is one such "chokepoint" and another is how we treat other humans on this planet. Get through those two and you'll have a much more defined "basket of personal truths" to carry your own in. Find others who share those values, and for most people, we're on our way.

I have tried to help others who complain that their lives are "directionless". I say that if you do not know what you want, you'll never figure out how to get there. Some also generalize too much and just want some nebulous idea of "happiness", but they don't really know what that is, and so it eludes them. MapQuest can't help you if you do not know your destination.

I say one should start small. Find your passion. What do you care about? What news stories boil your blood when you hear about them? Once you figure that out, start with small goals, to get your feet in the water. Once you've made some gains, then you can see what bigger things need done. And some things you cannot do by yourself. That's okay, We are a social species, we are meant to engage with one another. Diplomacy is a fantastical skill to master.

I'm part of a group that got together over ten years ago in order to improve the homeless situation in my hometown, Phoenix, AZ. We shun the spotlight, preferring to work as much as we can "under the radar". But we have hung together because of our shared passion, one that really does span religions and politics. We have Republicans and Democrats, we have Christians, Muslims, Jews and yes, atheists. But we all share this one underlying sense of purpose, to help those who need our help. We've partitioned off the downtown area, and we have people who are responsible for an area, and we have others who support these people. It works for us, and fortunately, we're all highly motivated and none of us are "directionless" anymore.

Again, I've been lucky. Yes, I started off white and semi-affluent, I've had every advantage that brings. My dad paid for my college out of his own pocket, it helped that I was an only child so he didn't have to shell out like that for other kids, too. But I've had bad times that taught me about people and the underbelly of my species. To this day I have a middle of the road government job and I still make less than $100k a year. I realize I could have gotten on the fast track and could have been well on my way to being truly affluent, but that's not what drives me. That's not where my "direction" goes. But I'm happy as hell. I have more fun than humans should be allowed to have (according to David Letterman). So, I guess it does "work for me".

@kellyjay said
Have had this conversation here before, and those that support your point of view will more than likely join you, I reject it totally. You even reject it, showing how it is self-contradictory in nature. You cannot say everyone’s views are equally valid for them, then pronounce a view that prohibits others from denying other’s validity of their beliefs! Either all views are ...[text shortened]... annot tell me that there are rules in keeping all views valid while setting up rules that deny that.

What we usually do when we ask "Is it valid?" is "Does it line up with MY beliefs or not?"

That's not what "valid" means to me. It leaves no room for compromise, for understanding.

@rajk999 said
All religions preach charity and brotherly love as the single most important thing in someones life. This is the way to the Kingdom of God. Jesus said the same thing. You and your doctrine of mouth worship is the road the damnation.

The two most important things are loving God and each other. Jesus said, He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life! He didn't say He is teaching a way, or telling us about the truth, or we can acquire life by following Him, He personalizes it. He is the Way because He is God, He is the Truth because He is God, He is the Life because He is God. All religions can teach about love, but they are not talking about God who is love, they can teach us to be better, they cannot give us new life as Jesus can when we are born again.

Depart from me I didn't know you is a real threat you should take much more seriously than you do. As I have pointed out you over and over we are justified in Christ Jesus we can only abide in Him by His grace and mercy you cannot come to a Holy God and abide in Him being an unrepentant sinner. You cannot abide in Him in reality while denying Him.

It doesn't matter what all religions preach, even in Christianity this is true, it only matters that you are right with God through Jesus Christ. If not all of your works will not save you, for we are not saved by works least any of us boast. If you continue this path damnation is the end of it.

We will do the good works God has for us for we are His workmanship. God is not here to make us better versions of ourselves, but conform us into the image of his Son. This is not something that will be done with us avoiding God and God's grace so that we can receive God's Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:28-30 English Standard Version (ESV)
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

@kellyjay said
The two most important things are loving God and each other. Jesus said, He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life! He didn't say He is teaching a way, or telling us about the truth, or we can acquire life by following Him, He personalizes it. He is the Way because He is God, He is the Truth because He is God, He is the Life because He is God. All religions can teach about love ...[text shortened]... o called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Thank you for that detailed church doctrine of mouth worship.
That is the broad path that leads to eternal damnation.
Here is what Jesus had to say about that doctrine:

Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
naked, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)

@rajk999 said
Thank you for that detailed church doctrine of mouth worship.
That is the broad path that leads to eternal damnation.
Here is what Jesus had to say about that doctrine:

Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a s ...[text shortened]... d, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)

I hope you find the path to righteousness before you lose you chance.

@kellyjay said
I hope you find the path to righteousness before you lose you chance.

That sentence alone is hard evidence that you have failed to understand the teachings of Christ.

@rajk999 said
Thank you for that detailed church doctrine of mouth worship.
That is the broad path that leads to eternal damnation.
Here is what Jesus had to say about that doctrine:

Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a s ...[text shortened]... d, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)

Again no one denies doing good works is important, but if you have not entered into by the narrow door you will not be able to.

John 10:7
So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

Matthew 7:22-24 English Standard Version (ESV)
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Matthew 25:40-42 English Standard Version (ESV)
And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,

Luke 13
He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’ In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God. And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”

@suzianne said
Then believe it or not (lol, see what I did there? ), we're on the same side.

What happened in Salem, the carnage that was the Crusades, the carnage that was the Spanish Inquisition, I am just as against these gross injustices as you are.

Rightly so, your beef is with "those who perpetrate injustice in the name of [religion]", and not religion itself. I have held and ...[text shortened]... f the business of state, for good reason. We must remain vigilant against attempts to fuse the two.

We are very often on the same side, because we both love humanity, and because you know the difference between worshipping God and worshipping religion. Those who think there is only one valid religion are those who worship religion, not God.

@suzianne said
I don't pretend to know all the answers, as some here do, or even that "Goddidit" is the best answer for everything. I believe in my heart that my faith is true, that is, the things I believe in regarding a deity, His rules, His creation, His actual Holiness, are true. I have my personal faith, and as I have often thought about this, not being the sort of person who normal ...[text shortened]... it is subjective as hell, thus my disclaimers. But this is what has proven God to me.

I could hardly fail to disagree with you less there. You’re not the kind of person, Christian or otherwise, who would put people in gulags but for the 1st Amendment, or burn people at the stake for witchcraft. If only those who are absolutely certain they have an infinitely higher truth than subjective evidence were as honest about it as you are, we’d have had lot less witchburning and fewer gulags.

@bigdoggproblem said
Should not every outside opinion be taken with a "grain of salt"?

That is what critical thinking is all about.

Taken further, it applies to my own thoughts.

“Are you the kind of person my parents warned me about?”

I’m the kind of person I would warn myself about!

Examine everything with an open mind; the unexamined life is not worth living, said Socrates.

@caissad4 said
Please present your extraordinary proof.

I have. If you don't appreciate it that's fine. But I asked you an honest question and that was what would you accept as proof about God really existing?
Example: If you were to land on a planet, lets say Mars and you were from some other planet from way out there. You knew nothing of planet earth and of humans.
But as you were exploring Mars you happened to come across some of the equipment that humans have left there from our exploration of Mars over the decades. Now all of this equipment, which is very impressive, compared to humans and our very complex body's and of course the magnificence of our brains, cannot be compared to humans.
So you see this equipment sitting around on the planet and you would no doubt have many questions, like who made this stuff? Fair question right? Surely all of this equipment had to have someone design it and construct it for some purpose, right? Or could it somehow have just had the wind over hundreds of
thousands of years put itself together from just random wind blown dirt and dust or whatever, to become what you see in front of you?
So wouldn't a situation similar to this in regards to our planet earth with millions of life forms including humans be more then the needed proof that God is real and had to create all that you see everyday including the universe out there that you can see at night ? Why would one not ask the same question and that is "who made all of this" and would never even consider that all of it just happened to be on it's own without a master planner, designer and then finally create itself?
So maybe thinking and explore along those lines and see what you might discover about God and you'll find that he does exist.

@suzianne said
What we usually do when we ask "Is it valid?" is "Does it line up with MY beliefs or not?"

That's not what "valid" means to me. It leaves no room for compromise, for understanding.

I think we can agree that in many cases compromise and understanding are great things, but with some points there are truths that should never be compromised, and even understanding the other's point doesn't do away with these truths. These points of truth are absolute, and even denying this is self-contradictory, if one suggests a great truth is there is no truth, and we can absolutely say there are not absolutes falls on its face just uttering these things shows the contradiction in it.

@kellyjay said
I think we can agree that in many cases compromise and understanding are great things, but with some points there are truths that should never be compromised, and even understanding the other's point doesn't do away with these truths. These points of truth are absolute, and even denying this is self-contradictory, if one suggests a great truth is there is no truth, and we ca ...[text shortened]... there are not absolutes falls on its face just uttering these things shows the contradiction in it.

You keep talking about your personal opinions about the universe as if they are not just a combination of speculation + internalized religious doctrine + aspiration. However, the long and short of it is that all you are doing is sharing your personal opinions about "the truth" with various vocabulary items sprinkled across your text indicating how certain you are.