Spirituality
19 Jun 19
22 Jun 19
@eladar saidThe point is that I was sent to Sunday School and then to church, during my most impressionable years, so I came under the influence, as opposed to any other influence, regardless of why I was there, and I was too young to work out why I was there. (I was also baptized into the Christian faith way before I was able to have any influence over that).
In a way yes is yes. Being sent to church for social reasons is no reason to go to church, though for most it is the case.
You did not give up your upbringing, you simply embraced it convincing yourself you made a choice.
I wasn't given a choice as to which if any would be my preferred religion. I was indoctrinated into a particular belief because of where and into which society I was born. When I reached the age of reason I rejected my inherited faith, (so I did not embrace it) which was my choice, but my point is that we are where we come from.
I won't personalize this by asking you about your own circumstances, but as a general rule people from predominantly Protestant Christian communities 'become' Protestant Christians, those from Catholic communities become Catholic, and the same applies to Islam, Hindu, and any other religion you care to name. That which we believe is often nothing more than an accident of birth.
Bottom line, whatever gets you through the night is fine with me, people can believe in the bible or the tooth fairy or whatever they want, but to proclaim one religion as being the only truth is not correct. Truth is a subjective and dangerous beast with big teeth, which should be regarded with suspicion.
22 Jun 19
@indonesia-phil saidLol
The point is that I was sent to Sunday School and then to church, during my most impressionable years, so I came under the influence, as opposed to any other influence, regardless of why I was there, and I was too young to work out why I was there. (I was also baptized into the Christian faith way before I was able to have any influence over that).
I wasn't given a ...[text shortened]... . Truth is a subjective and dangerous beast with big teeth, which should be regarded with suspicion.
22 Jun 19
@indonesia-phil saidWhy do you think its not possible for one religion to be the truth over all others? You think some how a law of nature forbids it, or that something else is in play? You think we each have our own law of gravity that keeps us all on earth a little differently than each other? What makes religion so different than anything else? You think its an absolute that there isn't a truth that binds us all?
The point is that I was sent to Sunday School and then to church, during my most impressionable years, so I came under the influence, as opposed to any other influence, regardless of why I was there, and I was too young to work out why I was there. (I was also baptized into the Christian faith way before I was able to have any influence over that).
I wasn't given a ...[text shortened]... . Truth is a subjective and dangerous beast with big teeth, which should be regarded with suspicion.
@indonesia-phil saidTruth is a subjective and dangerous beast with big teeth, which should be regarded with suspicion.IF you read the teachings of Jesus Christ, specifically what he said to do, the life that must be lived, and the reward for good works and righteousness, you would see that it matches the basic doctrine of humanity preached by all religions.
If you were brought up in Christianity you should notice churches do not preach that doctrine of Christ. If you are of a reasonably independent mind you would also see that all the other nonsense that Christians preach is just a load of foolishness.
23 Jun 19
@kellyjay saidYou are perfectly entitled to your personal opinion that your religion deals in "a truth that binds us all". You are perfectly entitled to your personal opinion that the "law of gravity" is a good analogy for the veracity of your religion. You are perfectly entitled to your personal opinion that not being a member of your religion leads to dire consequences.
You think we each have our own law of gravity that keeps us all on earth a little differently than each other? What makes religion so different than anything else? You think its an absolute that there isn't a truth that binds us all?
23 Jun 19
@divegeester saidThis is the kind of honesty this forum could use more of.
A powerful need to seek, to want to believe can be confused as faith or can overlap with faith. It is not a straightforward condition. I struggle with it (the dichotomy) all the time, but I confess that the faith I have my Lord and his existence is thankfully strangely resilient to my wayward ways and doubting prevarications.
[yes, grammar nazis, I ended a sentence in a preposition]
23 Jun 19
@indonesia-phil saidLike yourself, I am an atheist. You are 'preaching to the choir' here ... [even if it is a poor analogy...]
When it comes to religion, social conditioning has a huge influence. If you are born and raised into a Christian family and community then the chances are you ain't going to convert to Islam when you grow up, but will go with that which you inherit. I think that in Britain and northern Europe in general the influence isn't that strong, and people like myself can easily ...[text shortened]... to break. This is just my impression, I could be wrong....
Edit; And I'm generalizing, of course.
23 Jun 19
@indonesia-phil saidThanks for that, although, with no disrespect meant, I could not care less whether atheists "stick together".
Speaking as a dumb atheist I would just like to express my agreement.
23 Jun 19
@suzianne saidThis is a great post. Thanks so much for taking the time to be thoughtful and willing to express it.
I don't pretend to know all the answers, as some here do, or even that "Goddidit" is the best answer for everything. I believe in my heart that my faith is true, that is, the things I believe in regarding a deity, His rules, His creation, His actual Holiness, are true. I have my personal faith, and as I have often thought about this, not being the sort of person who normal ...[text shortened]... it is subjective as hell, thus my disclaimers. But this is what has proven God to me.
Yes, the approach to life is subjective! I strongly believe that there is not one "right" spiritual path for all people. In your case, I would say that you have found a good spiritual path for yourself. You feel engaged with something larger than yourself. You feel connected to your community. Compared to this feeling [or, to put it more strongly, realization of personal truths], all skepticism withers away.
We humans have a limited ability to know things. There are few "objective" truths we can know. Most of them are subjective, of the kind that help us get through our lives in a meaningful way.
23 Jun 19
@suzianne saidShould not every outside opinion be taken with a "grain of salt"?
Campbell also roughly equates religion with myth, which, while interesting, leads me to take some of what he says with a grain of salt.
That is what critical thinking is all about.
Taken further, it applies to my own thoughts.
23 Jun 19
@kellyjay saidReligion has nothing to do with the laws of nature, which would get along perfectly well without religion. Religion speaks of a higher power or powers, or however one might define such things, and so it is in fact unique.
Why do you think its not possible for one religion to be the truth over all others? You think some how a law of nature forbids it, or that something else is in play? You think we each have our own law of gravity that keeps us all on earth a little differently than each other? What makes religion so different than anything else? You think its an absolute that there isn't a truth that binds us all?
Your belief is your belief, and your truth is your truth, which is all well and good so long as you don't deny others the validity of their beliefs and their truths.
That which binds us all is our common humanity, and our common search for something beyond ourselves and our short lives. Religion tends to divide, which was never the point of it, and it's people who pervert it. Love your god, and let others love their gods, and let's all love each other, that's all I'm saying.
23 Jun 19
@Indonesia-Phil
Open minded people understand that all worldviews are based on unproven assumptions and therefore equally as man made....at least from our point of view.
23 Jun 19
@indonesia-phil saidHave had this conversation here before, and those that support your point of view will more than likely join you, I reject it totally. You even reject it, showing how it is self-contradictory in nature. You cannot say everyone’s views are equally valid for them, then pronounce a view that prohibits others from denying other’s validity of their beliefs! Either all views are valid or not, if not than you cannot tell me that there are rules in keeping all views valid while setting up rules that deny that.
Religion has nothing to do with the laws of nature, which would get along perfectly well without religion. Religion speaks of a higher power or powers, or however one might define such things, and so it is in fact unique.
Your belief is your belief, and your truth is your truth, which is all well and good so long as you don't deny others the validity of their beliefs ...[text shortened]... Love your god, and let others love their gods, and let's all love each other, that's all I'm saying.