Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Proof

@kellyjay said
To know the beginning reveals a vast amount of errors in how the universe should be viewed.

But you don't "know the beginning". Neither do I.

What does it matter if your personal opinion about "how the universe should be viewed" is different from mine?

@kellyjay said
Well the universe is here, you have some form of logic that says it could come from nothing?

Maybe it's always been here in some form or other.

@philokalia said
There are reasonable arguments either way.

If "there are reasonable arguments either way", why then do so many religionists think it is morally "reasonable" for people who adhere to the allegedly wrong "reasonable arguments" to be punished in such a stupendously violent and cruel way after they die?

@kellyjay said
Scriptural proofs are only given to those that seek God with all their heart.

So the "proof" only appears to be true to those for whom the "proof" appears to be true?

@fmf said
Maybe it's always been here in some form or other.

Yes, there's that...Trying to imagine something with no beginning and no end is the kind of thing that makes your head explode, (not your head, but heads in general). It's the same thing trying to get your head around an infinite universe; starting from point (a). (Say number 6 Clapham High Street for example) and travelling in any direction for ever, and ever, and ever.....It's the kind of thing which makes you reach for the Tequila. People need boundaries and beginnings in order to make sense of things.

@indonesia-phil said
Yes, there's that...Trying to imagine something with no beginning and no end is the kind of thing that makes your head explode, (not your head, but heads in general). It's the same thing trying to get your head around an infinite universe; starting from point (a). (Say number 6 Clapham High Street for example) and travelling in any direction for ever, and ever, and eve ...[text shortened]... s you reach for the Tequila. People need boundaries and beginnings in order to make sense of things.

There's nothing wrong with conjecture and aspiration. The problem is conjecture and aspiration is heaped upon and aspiration over and over again until you have the notion of everlasting life, the execution of a maverick Jewish rabbi somehow "forgiving" "sins", and non-believers being confronted with the far-fetched and morally incoherent torturer god ideology.

So maybe the universe has always been here in some form or other, or maybe it was created. Or maybe something else happened. We just don't know.

@fmf said
There's nothing wrong with conjecture and aspiration. The problem is conjecture and aspiration is heaped upon and aspiration over and over again until you have the notion of everlasting life, the execution of a maverick Jewish rabbi somehow "forgiving" "sins", and non-believers being confronted with the far-fetched and morally incoherent torturer god ideology.

So maybe the un ...[text shortened]... n some form or other, or maybe it was created. Or maybe something else happened. We just don't know.

Oh, I know.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Oh, I know.

Give us a clue....

@indonesia-phil said
Give us a clue....

Scholar Tokusan (a man full of knowledge and opinions) came to Master Ryutan and asked about Zen. At one point Ryutan re-filled his guest's teacup but did not stop pouring when the cup was full. Tea spilled out and ran over the table. "Stop! The cup is full!" said Tokusan.

"Exactly," said Master Ryutan. "You are like this cup; you are full of ideas. You come and ask for teaching, but your cup is full; I can't put anything in. Before I can teach you, you'll have to empty your cup."


https://www.learnreligions.com/empty-your-cup-3976934

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Scholar Tokusan (a man full of knowledge and opinions) came to Master Ryutan and asked about Zen. At one point Ryutan re-filled his guest's teacup but did not stop pouring when the cup was full. Tea spilled out and ran over the table. "Stop! The cup is full!" said Tokusan.

"Exactly," said Master Ryutan. "You are like this cup; you are full of ideas. You come and as ...[text shortened]... each you, you'll have to empty your cup."


https://www.learnreligions.com/empty-your-cup-3976934

No room for truth if you have all the answers?

@kellyjay said
No room for truth if you have all the answers?

No room for truth if you 'think' you already have all the answers...

@ghost-of-a-duke said
No room for truth if you 'think' you already have all the answers...

As regards the origins of the universe I don't think I have all of the answers, in fact I don't have any answers at all, my cup of tea stands empty. So what's the truth?

@galveston75 said
So what would you consider or imagine would qualify as the extraordinary proof that you would like to see or hear that would satisfy your request?

To: caissad4


You must have missed my question....

@galveston75 said
To: caissad4


You must have missed my question....

Please present your extraordinary proof.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
No room for truth if you 'think' you already have all the answers...

Yes

I guess that is one of the reasons God asks for faith not certainty.