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    17 Oct '06 07:02
    I open a thread and invite those who want to challange my view in spiritual matters (as I promised in "Posers and Puzzles" forum).

    I don't pretend I have the ultimate answers to every question, but I have opinions in many of them. I belive in the principle that every one is entitle to be respected for their religion - if - they equally respect others views of their religion. In religion truth does not exist, only faith.

    This very thread is the only one I'll read and write in.
  2. Joined
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    17 Oct '06 12:181 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I open a thread and invite those who want to challange my view in spiritual matters (as I promised in "Posers and Puzzles" forum).

    I don't pretend I have the ultimate answers to every question, but I have opinions in many of them. I belive in the principle that every one is entitle to be respected for their religion - if - they equally respect others v ...[text shortened]... ruth does not exist, only faith.

    This very thread is the only one I'll read and write in.
    I agree with you. In the Christian tradition respecting others for who and what they are is key. It goes hand and hand with the "love thy neighbor" law. In fact, I think you will find that respect is required if one is to actually love another. Those that you do not love are usually, if not always, those in whom you have no respect for.
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    17 Oct '06 12:421 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    I agree with you. In the Christian tradition respecting others for who and what they are is key. It goes hand and hand with the "love thy neighbor" law. In fact, I think you will find that respect is required if one is to actually love another. Those that you do not love are usually, if not always, those in whom you have no respect for.
    Well, this is how it should be, but in numerous it is not the case. Often I hear/read opinions like "I'm right and you're wrong", "My view is from God and if your view differs from mine then yours is wrong" and "My interpretation of the Bible/Koran/Das Kapital (or whatever) is the right one and no other is good enough".

    Even I often I don't feel respected in my beliefs in evolution, cosmology and my open-minded views of other religions, including "my own".

    Those who don't respect others views doesn't deserve respect from other either. That's one of my principles.

    "Love others and you will be loved" - Fabian
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    17 Oct '06 13:15
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Well, this is how it should be, but in numerous it is not the case. Often I hear/read opinions like "I'm right and you're wrong", "My view is from God and if your view differs from mine then yours is wrong" and "My interpretation of the Bible/Koran/Das Kapital (or whatever) is the right one and no other is good enough".

    Even I often I don't feel respec ...[text shortened]... er. That's one of my principles.

    "Love others and you will be loved" - Fabian
    Christ went a step further. He said to love those who use you and disrespect you and abuse you. Crazy huh? In other words, as a Christian we are to show respect for those that do not even respect us. After all, as you say, if you want to be treated with respect you must treat others with respect regardless of how they are treating you.
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    17 Oct '06 13:26
    Originally posted by whodey
    Christ went a step further. He said to love those who use you and disrespect you and abuse you. Crazy huh? In other words, as a Christian we are to show respect for those that do not even respect us. After all, as you say, if you want to be treated with respect you must treat others with respect regardless of how they are treating you.
    I nice thought, but how many of us is good as Jesus? How devine are we?
    Should the gay people in Hitlers concentration camp be grateful to the nazis? I don't think so.

    For me it's enough to respect those who respect others. I'm just human. It is important not to promise more than you can hold.
  6. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    17 Oct '06 14:08
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I open a thread and invite those who want to challange my view in spiritual matters (as I promised in "Posers and Puzzles" forum).

    I don't pretend I have the ultimate answers to every question, but I have opinions in many of them. I belive in the principle that every one is entitle to be respected for their religion - if - they equally respect others v ...[text shortened]... ruth does not exist, only faith.

    This very thread is the only one I'll read and write in.
    I respect your right to believe whatever you want, but I do not respect your religion itself, nor do I have any respect for you for believing it.

    In otherwords, I have respect for the principles of the liberal, secular state, in which you can have any belief you want, no matter how unworthy of respect that belief itself may be.
  7. Joined
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    17 Oct '06 14:13
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I nice thought, but how many of us is good as Jesus? How devine are we?
    Should the gay people in Hitlers concentration camp be grateful to the nazis? I don't think so.

    For me it's enough to respect those who respect others. I'm just human. It is important not to promise more than you can hold.
    You are right in that we are not devine as Christ and that this type of love does not come naturally. In fact, I would argue that such love is supernatural in origin and is only avaliable via the cross. Could you imagine being on the cross and asking the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do?
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    17 Oct '06 14:17
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I respect your right to believe whatever you want, but I do not respect your religion itself, nor do I have any respect for you for believing it.

    In otherwords, I have respect for the principles of the liberal, secular state, in which you can have any belief you want, no matter how unworthy of respect that belief itself may be.
    This is interesting.

    My principle "I respect anyone who respect others" can be enlarged to "Every religion who tolerates other religions are worth tolerance".

    If someones religion is so weak that it is threatened by other religions, it is then worth to take seriously? Isn't it the same thing to say "Don't criticize my religion but I have the right to criticize yours!" and "My religion is better than yours!" Seems not very Jesus like to me.

    Only the strong religions can offer tolerance to others. It is a sign of strength.
  9. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    17 Oct '06 14:22
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    This is interesting.

    My principle "I respect anyone who respect others" can be enlarged to "Every religion who tolerates other religions are worth tolerance".

    If someones religion is so weak that it is threatened by other religions, it is then worth to take seriously? Isn't it the same thing to say "Don't criticize my religion but I have the right t ...[text shortened]...

    Only the strong religions can offer tolerance to others. It is a sign of strength.
    I can agree with that. The less tolerant a religion is, the less worthy of respect it is. On a relative scale, some religions deserve less respect than others, but the bottom line is that no religion merits wholehearted respect.
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    17 Oct '06 14:32
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I can agree with that. The less tolerant a religion is, the less worthy of respect it is. On a relative scale, some religions deserve less respect than others, but the bottom line is that no religion merits wholehearted respect.
    We have to know that there are over 6 billions of religions on this earth, one for each person., not one exactly like the other. Every one of this all religions is not better than the bearer of that religion in particular.

    Some religions of those are worth respect, not because it is zen, animism or Fortuna, but because of the person having that religion in particular and how he is practicing it.

    Does he allow other to have their religion? Then he deserves respect from others as well. If he thinks that his religion is the best one in the entire world, then he is not worthy of such respect.

    (Well, Fabian, do you yourself have the ultimate religion?)
    Yes, for me it is the best religion, not for others. It demands somewhat of my way of thinking. It doesn’t suit every one.
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    17 Oct '06 14:36
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I open a thread and invite those who want to challange my view in spiritual matters (as I promised in "Posers and Puzzles" forum).

    I don't pretend I have the ultimate answers to every question, but I have opinions in many of them. I belive in the principle that every one is entitle to be respected for their religion - if - they equally respect others v ...[text shortened]... ruth does not exist, only faith.

    This very thread is the only one I'll read and write in.
    Hi

    What you offer is interesting and I'm curiose about what points do you offer for discussion.
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    17 Oct '06 14:38
    Let me ask you what religon is for. And whay do you think human need religon.
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    17 Oct '06 14:48
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Hi

    What you offer is interesting and I'm curiose about what points do you offer for discussion.
    Actually, a discussion started at Puzzles and posers about what God have to do wether or not man can travel beyond the solar system. Before we got too deep off topic i offered a thread here in Spirituality to discuss the matter more deeply.

    So - here I am.

    But when I am at it, i offer anyone to discuss whatever they want in this thread, and here only.
  14. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    17 Oct '06 14:49
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    We have to know that there are over 6 billions of religions on this earth, one for each person., not one exactly like the other. Every one of this all religions is not better than the bearer of that religion in particular.

    Some religions of those are worth respect, not because it is zen, animism or Fortuna, but because of the person having that religio ...[text shortened]... religion, not for others. It demands somewhat of my way of thinking. It doesn’t suit every one.
    Nothing you have said here contradicts anything from my previous post. Whether there are 6 religions or 6 billion is irrelevant. Many of them deserve no respect at all, but none of them is worthy of wholehearted respect.
  15. London
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    17 Oct '06 14:54
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I open a thread and invite those who want to challange my view in spiritual matters (as I promised in "Posers and Puzzles" forum).

    I don't pretend I have the ultimate answers to every question, but I have opinions in many of them. I belive in the principle that every one is entitle to be respected for their religion - if - they equally respect others v ...[text shortened]... ruth does not exist, only faith.

    This very thread is the only one I'll read and write in.
    I belive in the principle that every one is entitle to be respected for their religion - if - they equally respect others views of their religion.

    What does that mean, precisely?

    In religion truth does not exist, only faith.

    If it is not about Truth, then it's pointless.
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